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GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

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Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#61
post #41

So, semver is great and all, but 0.0.x releases just look silly, in my opinion. I've never seen someone zero index the least significant column before though, which makes it look even worse. Would people actually expect w piece of software marked as version 0.0.0 to be anything more than a placeholder?

From the release notes: > This is a first alpha release Alpha typically means feature complete, but untested and thus unsuitable for general release. You don't need to use good-looking version numbers for that.

Beta means what you think alpha means. Alpha means that some features are done, but others aren't, and the entire application is still subject to change.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#62

>Unlike BitCoin or cash payments, Taler ensures that governments can learn their citizen's total income and thus collect sales, value-added or income taxes Wow, what a feature ...

BitCoin is political - it holds an anarcho-capitalist ideal where taxes are entirely immoral. Taler holds the opposite political ideal.

Bitcoin lacks untraceability. USG implementing taxes for bitcoin will be relatively straightforward. KYC focus on exchanges, merchant wallet registration, and then a gradual tightening of the screws.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#63
post #46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure how you can say that but again enjoy your zeal induced tunnel view. You can't get any more free than the BSDL short of public domain. And neither OS has any binary only parts or parts only available if you pay for them that I am aware of. So again i don't know how you view them as not having strong convictions about free software.

They have no issue with their work being used for proprietary software. That's the opposite of having strong convictions about free software. Sure, they provide a mostly free operating system but they allow other people to take that code and enslave users. And I say that knowing that Linus doesn't care about software freedom either, it's just a development model to him. But at least it uses the GPL, so any code I con…

"They have no issue with their work being used..." Stop. Right there. Do not pass go do not collect $200 dollars. There is where you should have stopped.

People who write code and release it under a BSDL want people to use their code. ALL people! Users and business. That is called freedom. You, whoever you may be, are free to use this code any way you see fit just don't sue me. The GPL on the other hand hates proprietary software. Good for you. But keep in mind in your induced hatred of proprietary software, that it is usually proprietary software that innovates and pushes things forward. Free software developers are great. But they only work generally on things of interest to them. They don't solve the "hard" problems unless someone pays them too. Take ZFS. After fourty years of fs development what does OS have for FS's? Linux has btrfs? BSD is still using ffs, hammer maybe. That's really... Sad. It took millions of dollars and I don't even know how many man hours for sun to create ZFS.

Or the UI. Look at what Apple has had to spend and the time require to create the HIG and the UI for OS X. And yes I'm sure some OS jackasses are going to attempt to declare kde or gnome etc as equal or superior to the OS X UI. But that is plain flat out disingenuous. They are not even in the same ballpark. And the apple UI is far from perfect! And the OS UIs are light years behind it.

The point is the BSDL encourages everyone to use it. We believe in true freedom.

Will bad people do bad things with it? Probably, but that's inevitable in a FREE society. The GPL on the other hand tries to enforce it's imperialistic view of "freedom" by the barrel of a gun. Or if you don't want to share that flawed world view don't use our code. Which is fine, your free to hold that belief. But don't call it freedom and don't expect people who understand freedom not to call you on your bullshit either. The GPL is not free. It has stings attached to its use. Continuing to claim otherwise is disingenuous at best and outright lying at worst.

And i object to the wording "it's caring about users enough to not allow someone to take advantage of them by taking your work and giving them a proprietary version." This is absolute nonsense and bullshit Linux/GPL folks have been using for 20 years. You cannot make bsd licensed code proprietary. Period. What you can make proprietary is your own added value code on top of it. The original unmodified code is still free, still under the BSDL, still available for a user to take and use as he sees fit. The original code doesn't magically disappear to a land of unicorns and leprechauns the second someone forks it and modifies it in a proprietary way. That's simply untrue and disingenuous to keep vomitting that line.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#65
post #56
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This must be the most blatantly hypocritical statement I have ever read. Money is STOLEN by corporations by not paying taxes??? How ignorant and thankless can you be? Money is CREATED by these corporations and you owe a huge chunk of your well-being, and quite likely your life, to the existence of said corporations.

Ah, yes, because corporations exist in a vacuum and generate money from thin air, typically using up none of earth's natural resources.

And they usually pay royalties on said resources? Pay for rights to said resources? Trust me, we learned a long time ago how to extract $$$ for said resources.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#66
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how other open source projects had no problem adopting ZFS or it's license. Perhaps the issue isn't Sun or the CDDL but rather Linux and the GPL. Perhaps it's the GPL that isn't compatible with others. But that is the entire point of the viral nature of GPL. "You don't have to use our code." Your right and people are beginning not to. I mean seriously if you are so full of zeal you can't see Linux starting…

It's funny how other open source projects had no problem adopting ZFS or it's license. Not true; here's OpenBSD/OpenSSH developer Damien Miller on the CDDL: The CDDL is even more restrictive than the GPL and is far more legally pernicious. In particular: Clause 3.5 is a GPL-like "must distribute source" requirement. Worse, clauses 3.3 and 9 have no place in a free software license. I don't understand how anyone who h…

Yeah so I'm not sure first of all quoting theo or openbsd folks is adding value to your argument. They are known to be quite, how should I say this, on the extreme side of things.

And just because obsd holds this view that doesn't refute my statement. Illumos and FreeBSD are both OS and both are using it. So it is what it is.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#67
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are taxes immoral?

Spoiler: they aren't. It's an incredibly naive position that many "libertarians" hold. It ignores the direct and indirect benefits that governments provide that support an entity being able to make money that can even be taxed. It's quite a silly position. Now specific taxes could be immoral and debate about the correct amount that it should be all you like... but the concept? No.

So... Your argument is, if the thing taking your money provides you with some benefit it's moral?

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#68

>Unlike BitCoin or cash payments, Taler ensures that governments can learn their citizen's total income and thus collect sales, value-added or income taxes Wow, what a feature ...

Indeed, that is an excellent feature.

Money transfers without the banks, but I can potentially get buy-in from my government and use it to pay my taxes (which I am happy to pay, because I am buying civilization with it)?

Sign me up!

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#69
I don't have time for a full write up of this system yet, and a paper would be really great.

That said, here are to me the most salient points:

* Exchanges (essentially banks in Taler) must have external auditing; there are no in-built technology mechanisms for noticing or defeating over-issuance

* HTTP/HTTPS focused -- this is intended to be an API-layer tool

* Token based, so you could use it with any system you want

* Government audit friendly -- it tries for high levels of privacy for users and almost none for merchants as a conscious decision to be bad for money laundering.

Re: GNU Taler 0.0.0 released

#70

So, semver is great and all, but 0.0.x releases just look silly, in my opinion. I've never seen someone zero index the least significant column before though, which makes it look even worse. Would people actually expect w piece of software marked as version 0.0.0 to be anything more than a placeholder?

To me, 0.x version numbers suggest that a project is not stable and can change in incompatible ways at any time... or be abandoned, even. 0.0.x, even more so. That said, some projects stay in 0.x territory for so long that this no longer applies.

0.0.0 is kind of weird... for some reason it suggests to me that zero lines of code have been written so far. (If there was code, the version number would have been higher.) But this is obviously not the case here. I do wonder what versions they used before this release?

Then again, I know of at least one non-trivial project that used negative version numbers... I guess, in the end, it just means what the developers say it means.

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