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Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

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Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#151

Post by The_Blackthorn »

increment_i wrote: post #72
MichaelGG wrote: post #52

And yet, Canada turned down help from Russia and the US. Then went around and hired 300 firefighters from South Africa that have no experience with this type of fire or equipment (they said due to lack of water, they use sticks to beat the bush fires). I understand it's more of a social help program ("Working On Fire" job assistance), but still it seems bizarre. Or maybe I've been reading the wrong news sources and t…

Turning down Russia I can (sort of?) understand. The last conservative government was keen on playing hardball with the Kremlin over Arctic sovereignty - seems there's no reason to back off that stance now. Turning down American help was strange though. I'd like an explanation for that..

They didn't turn down American help, there's 200 US firefighters there right now.

Source - http://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=41701E7ECBE35-AD48-579...

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#152

Post by ende »

dogma1138 wrote: post #97
MAGZine wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada already has a reciprocal firefighting agreement with America, so if we need external help, we have it. Inviting a totally foreign country in which you're in a) fighting a proxy war with in yet another part of the world; and b) fighting a passive battle for northern sovereignty/control with seems like an incredibly stupid idea. Canada has many forest fires on the go every year and are generally only worth fight…

Some forest are meant to burn yes, the problem is that with climate change forest fire now burn further north and for much longer than before. Drought conditions and the heat traps that are cities prevent proper rainfall which stops them and changes we've made to the landscape can prevent burn outs which also make fires last longer. And more importantly while forest fires are natural it doesn't mean it's good, we had…

The problem with accepting any kind of help from Russia is that the Russian government is single-mindedly focused on geopolitical leverage. It does nothing out of the kindness of heart. Every offer of assistance, every interaction with a foreign government is a calculated maneuver. No thanks.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#153

Post by rpgmaker »

MichaelGG wrote: post #122
redthrowaway wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At any given point in any given summer, a large chunk of the country is on fire. That's the reality of having a massive landmass covered in boreal forest. The consequence of that is that we have a well funded, professional forest fire service that is among the best in the world at what they do. If accepting American or Russian help would have helped save Canadian homes and businesses, we would have. The South African…

> The South Africans are here for diplomatic reasons more than anything So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Not to say that in a mean way, just that they are not the most qualified and have only received minimal training. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being praised as "South African government sees it as repaying a debt to the Canadian people for their support for the anti-aparth…

> So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something?

Are you implying that they're all black because they're from South Africa?

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#154

Post by rpgmaker »

dogma1138 wrote: post #80
dogma1138 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning help from Russia was stupid they actually got allot of experience the great northern forests of Russia are probably the closest environment to Canada and if they go a blaze it can cause an extinction level event on a planetary scale so they are actually well prepared for that at least as well as anyone can be. They even have reportedly tested killing forest fires with nukes if a Siberian tundra fire goes out…

I guess Russia is still unpopular on HN. Russia has allot of experience with wildfires it has the largest and densest northern forests in the world combined with a permafrost that holds insane amount of methane and other carbohydrates. Climate change and forest fires are huge national security issue to Russia and if they go out of control it can cause horrible damage to Russia and even then entire planet as it can ca…

> And while they might be arseholes on the political scene otherwise every time there is a large scale fire they do extend their hand and come in with serious help.

It's difficult to top the US in terms of foreign policy assholery though.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#155

Post by dang »

nkurz wrote: post #106
dang wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your responding thoughtfully, when it would be easier to double down (as many people do). On HN we're trying for respectful, substantive discourse. We don't always get there, but it's clear that we can't have users putting down entire countries without things degenerating pretty quickly. If you'd err on the side of editing out incivility from your future comments, we'd appreciate that too. It's something…

Seeing as you split your time between the two countries in question, what's your current preference? From my Bay Area perspective, Canada often seems pretty appealing.

I like them both a lot. But what else could I say? Fortunately it's true.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#156

Post by dleslie »

MustardTiger wrote: post #138
dleslie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a historical sense, Canadian dollar isn't particularly low, at least not so low that I would call it "massive flooring". [0][1] Canada's unemployment rate of 7.1% is normal. [2] 0: The 80s were turbulent: http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-history-dollar/ 1: There was a spike and collapse where you'd recently expect: http://www.profitconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12... 2: Historical unemployment d…

>In a historical sense, Canadian dollar isn't particularly low, at least not so low that I would call it "massive flooring". There was only one period of history where we were this badly fucked. And that was when this idiot's father was PM and destroyed our economy. It took 3 decades to pay back the debt he created and have our dollar recover. And now it is happening again.

It happened again, already. Harper contributed the largest deficits and the biggest total new debt of any PM; and he started -before- the 2008 crisis.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#157

Post by MichaelGG »

rpgmaker wrote: post #153
MichaelGG wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The South Africans are here for diplomatic reasons more than anything So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Not to say that in a mean way, just that they are not the most qualified and have only received minimal training. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't being praised as "South African government sees it as repaying a debt to the Canadian people for their support for the anti-aparth…

> So it's just a Trudeau-like "diversity" hire or something? Are you implying that they're all black because they're from South Africa?

Why wouldn't they be "diverse" (as in different) if they were white SAs? Though every picture and video seems to imply there's probably few to zero white firefighters that came over. But that might just be selective photography. (To be fair the pictures don't seem to show any women either, but the official number is around 60, or slightly greater than 20%.)

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#158

Post by musgrove »

redthrowaway wrote: post #117
MichaelGG wrote: post #52

And yet, Canada turned down help from Russia and the US. Then went around and hired 300 firefighters from South Africa that have no experience with this type of fire or equipment (they said due to lack of water, they use sticks to beat the bush fires). I understand it's more of a social help program ("Working On Fire" job assistance), but still it seems bizarre. Or maybe I've been reading the wrong news sources and t…

We turned down the help because it wouldn't have done any good. The fire was too large for people to put out. Only rain can kill it now. Believe me, we didn't turn down help out of pride. We have a ton of experience dealing with these things. We know when a fire is fightable, and when it isn't.

In many cases, it's not about putting the fire out when they become large. It's about containment, control and mitigation, which (competent) people are able to do.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#159

Post by dredmorbius »

tn13 wrote: post #119
dredmorbius wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poe's law. I've seen far too many (AFAICT) absolutely sincerely intended idiotic statements here. I mostly simply let them fly. xkcd 386 only gets you so far. Adding a tag to your comment helps.

I don't think is necessary one your rely on his/her own human intelligence.

Evidence suggests otherwise. Which is precisely what Poe's Law is about.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#160

Post by MustardTiger »

makoz wrote: post #149
MustardTiger wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If accepting American or Russian help would have helped save Canadian homes and businesses, we would have How do you know this? Because the actual firefighters wanted more planes. The prime minster, who knows nothing about fire fighting is the one who rejected the help. Note that this has been an especially dry, hot season with far more wildfires than usual. And despite this, the provincial government cancelled the…

Out of curiosity do you really think the prime minister just made a decision to reject help without consulting other people in the field?

No, and I suggested nothing of the sort.
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