Live data from Hacker News

Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

bloomberg.com

91–100 of 185 posts

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning help from Russia was stupid they actually got allot of experience the great northern forests of Russia are probably the closest environment to Canada and if they go a blaze it can cause an extinction level event on a planetary scale so they are actually well prepared for that at least as well as anyone can be. They even have reportedly tested killing forest fires with nukes if a Siberian tundra fire goes out…

I guess Russia is still unpopular on HN. Russia has allot of experience with wildfires it has the largest and densest northern forests in the world combined with a permafrost that holds insane amount of methane and other carbohydrates. Climate change and forest fires are huge national security issue to Russia and if they go out of control it can cause horrible damage to Russia and even then entire planet as it can ca…

Canada already has a reciprocal firefighting agreement with America, so if we need external help, we have it.

Inviting a totally foreign country in which you're in a) fighting a proxy war with in yet another part of the world; and b) fighting a passive battle for northern sovereignty/control with seems like an incredibly stupid idea.

Canada has many forest fires on the go every year and are generally only worth fighting when they threaten communities. Forests are meant to burn. I have friends who work in emergency fire fighting in Saskatchewan and they have not been deployed to the Northern fires because it is not the problem the media is making it out to be!

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#92
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The value of the Canadian dollar right now is much closer to the historical norm than it was when at parity for a relatively short period. 2. The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended. 3. That's true, and to be honest, I'm glad it's expensive. Expensive means there is something and/or someone there worth saving. I would argue…

The Obama comparison resonated with me - not in the specifics like policy, or how left/right they are - but in spirit, level of excitement and general sexiness. Obama after bush feels alot like Trudeau after Harper.

I understand, and at times share, the sentiment. But it's important for us not to confuse policy and enthusiasm.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#93

Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! # Most expensive Natural Disaster in Canadian history. At least they got their Obama.

A lower Canadian dollar is good for Canada. We are an export economy. It's not great for consumers, but the dollar isn't even that bad right now. It has been far lower, and during 'boom' times.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#94
post #5

Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! # Most expensive Natural Disaster in Canadian history. At least they got their Obama.

On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. Calgary's downtown office towers have reached record high vacancy rates, with so many engineers laid off. I'm hoping this is an opportunity for tech companies to take notice and move in.

The city in Alberta that makes more sense for an software engineering industry is Edmonton. The University of Alberta is one of the top CS/engineering schools on the continent.

I keep mentioning this to my coworkers at Google. A second Canadian engineering office in Edmonton would be awesome. And then I could move closer to my family.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#95
post #36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calgary is a very conservative city Economically? Sure. Socially? no way.

>Sure. Socially? no way. Compared to what? Calgary is more conservative than Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal, Quebec, Vancouver, and Victoria. Perhaps it's more liberal than Red Deer or Kelowna, but that's not saying much at all. It's also just an awful place to live. The urban sprawl makes public transit pale in comparison even to Vancouver which also has really bad transit. It's an 80 dollar cab ride to the airport whi…

I get the impression Calgary has changed somewhat since when I lived in Edmonton in the 90s.

I still think Edmonton is cooler, and would never live in Calgary, cuz, well, I'm from Edmonton area... :-) But it seems a little less cowboy these days.

Still sprawly, though.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#96
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting to know. I have been thinking of moving to Canada due to all the good things I hear from my Canadian friends. But I get conflicting view from the news and statistics.

Canada is big. Calgary is one small part, and that guy was exaggerating anyways. Let's remember that Calgary elected mayor Naheed Nenshi, a famously liberal Muslim who is pushing for better transit and more intensification. Iirc, Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP, a hard leftward swing of Alberta politics against the long control of the Progressive Conservative party. But yes, the pay sucks for co…

Calgary has been die hard right wing for years. Edmonton is the stronghold for the NDP. And historically that was always the case. (I'm old enough to remember Jan Reimer as mayor in the 80s...)

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#97
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess Russia is still unpopular on HN. Russia has allot of experience with wildfires it has the largest and densest northern forests in the world combined with a permafrost that holds insane amount of methane and other carbohydrates. Climate change and forest fires are huge national security issue to Russia and if they go out of control it can cause horrible damage to Russia and even then entire planet as it can ca…

Canada already has a reciprocal firefighting agreement with America, so if we need external help, we have it. Inviting a totally foreign country in which you're in a) fighting a proxy war with in yet another part of the world; and b) fighting a passive battle for northern sovereignty/control with seems like an incredibly stupid idea. Canada has many forest fires on the go every year and are generally only worth fight…

Some forest are meant to burn yes, the problem is that with climate change forest fire now burn further north and for much longer than before.

Drought conditions and the heat traps that are cities prevent proper rainfall which stops them and changes we've made to the landscape can prevent burn outs which also make fires last longer.

And more importantly while forest fires are natural it doesn't mean it's good, we had at least one fire related extinction event, and even considerably smaller scale fires can be disastrous to humans so while it's true that to some extent the policy is let it burn in this case it's not longer really the case.

And while I would also agree that Canada is in a political muck with Russia it doesn't make sense to deny their help, Israel accepted Turkey's help to combat forest fire when their relationship was arguably at the lowest point shortly after the flotilla incident. Governments should know when it's a good time to put a halt to their differences and emergencies are as good as an excuse as any.

P.S. With forests being natural carbon traps climate change is now just as important factor as threat to communities and livelihood with the amount of CO2 were putting into the atmosphere we might not be able to longer afford for forest fires to take their natural course if we actually want to start reversing some of the changes we've made. This isn't some clear cut case, and in this case it seems that Canada does take help from certain countries but for some reason refrains taking it from others and in such cases politics should really be the last thing on your mind.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#98

And yet, Canada turned down help from Russia and the US. Then went around and hired 300 firefighters from South Africa that have no experience with this type of fire or equipment (they said due to lack of water, they use sticks to beat the bush fires). I understand it's more of a social help program ("Working On Fire" job assistance), but still it seems bizarre. Or maybe I've been reading the wrong news sources and t…

Turning down Russia I can (sort of?) understand. The last conservative government was keen on playing hardball with the Kremlin over Arctic sovereignty - seems there's no reason to back off that stance now. Turning down American help was strange though. I'd like an explanation for that..

Not only did they turn down american help, they haven't even called on the Canadian military yet - apart from a few aerial imaging assets, they're still just on standby. It's pretty silly to call on external firefighting assets when we still haven't expended our domestic resources yet.

Apart from Fort McMurray (which is now pretty safe) it's a mostly unpopulated area, and fire is a great natural renewal process in a boreal forest. Letting it burn for a while longer and just trying to keep guiding it away from anything valuable with minimal resources is a valid strategy.

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#99
post #40

Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! # Most expensive Natural Disaster in Canadian history. At least they got their Obama.

1. The value of the Canadian dollar right now is much closer to the historical norm than it was when at parity for a relatively short period. 2. The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended. 3. That's true, and to be honest, I'm glad it's expensive. Expensive means there is something and/or someone there worth saving. I would argue…

> The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended.

That's blatantly incorrect.

- The US unemployment rate is 9.7% on the U6. The Canadian equivalent would be closer to 13%-15% [1] (the Canadian R8 is not the equivalent of the U6). That's not a marginal difference, it's a significant difference. The US U6 rate peaked at near 18%, six years ago. A 50% reduction is a very obvious signal that the recession ended a long time ago. The U6 rate before the recession in 2006 was 9%. If the recession had never ended, the U6 rate would still be extremely elevated.

- The US has gained a massive number of full-time jobs since the recession. That metric is at a record high. [2a] [2b]

- Total US employment is six million higher than the peak before the recession.

- US manufacturing output is at all-time highs and has climbed dramatically since the recession [3]. Total construction spending on manufacturing in the US is three to four times higher than it was in 2002-2006. None of that would be happening if the US were in recession.

- Real hourly earnings have been expanding since 2012-2013 [4]. While simultaneously inflation has been tame by most measures. Hourly earnings are about 7% higher than 2006. If the recession hadn't ended, that would not be the case.

- Government tax revenue, which is highly dependent on income taxes, is at record highs.

- The labor force participation rate has been stable for three years, despite millions of boomers retiring.

- In terms of income vs debt, US households have dramatically de-leveraged from the debt highs leading up to the great recession, and are in far better shape than Canadian households [5a] [5b].

- US household median disposable incomes are among the highest on earth. That metric obviously would not be doing so well if the US had spent the last ten years in a recession. US GDP per capita is ranked #5 out of all nations, 25% higher than Canada - an excellent sign of high economic productivity. [6]

So US economic productivity is extremely high, US unemployment has fallen by 50% back to a historically healthy level, full-time employment is at record highs, wage growth has been outpacing inflation for years, household income to debt ratios have improved dramatically, household balance sheets have never been higher, manufacturing output is at record highs. Uh, so what's the problem exactly?

[1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ec...

[2a] http://i.imgur.com/ERDhQLZ.jpg

[2b] http://i.imgur.com/zCC6ytm.png

[3] https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/OUTMS

[4] http://i.imgur.com/5Q7c27x.jpg

[5a] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ca...

[5b] http://business.financialpost.com/investing/outlook-2016/can...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28no...

Re: Canada’s $6.9B Wildfire Is the Size of Delaware and Still Out of Control

#100
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why learned members of HN don't get sarcasm. But anecdotally Trudeau was worried about carbon footprints from a camp fire he once attended, but these wildfires don't bother him.

because you can't trust assuming sarcasm on this site.

People come to HN to feel smart, and to discuss things that make them feel smart. Things nobody else in their house understands, like JSON and Node.js and jQuery.

They don't feel smart when they can't tell if you're being facetious or literal.

Post reply on HN