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Muhammad Ali has died

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Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#111
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need another (dozen) Cassius Clays. And yet you call him by a name he himself changed and hated.

If you want to grow pickles, it’s right to ask for cucumber seeds, even though a cucumber is not a pickle.

There's a mighty large Ali sized difference between pickles vs cucumbers and slave name vs ancestor name.

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#112
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not barbarism when it's consenting adults. Bulls and bears do not consent.

I agree that OPs point is not necessary and his analogy with animal murder is plain wrong, but the definition of barbarism does not hinge on the existence of consent. Brutal, uncivilized, or cruel imply barbarism. Consent does not imply non-brutal and civilized and uncruel.

Sorry, I was sloppy with language just to riff on his words. Of course you are right. I wanted get at the subtext of boxing being exploitative, in particular where it is comparable to something like bullfighting. Are we really aiming for a non contact world because some people see it as primitive and cruel? That's what comments like OP's make me think. Go after unscrupulous managers or the long term injury aspect, but I just don't see the problem with fighting sports where everyone is opting in and aware.

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#113
post #15

Why the Times can produce this so quickly. http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/author/margalit-fox/

A similar way that reports of boxing matches come out very quickly after the end of the match - because they didn't wait for the end to start writing.

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, boxing as a sport has much declined since Ali's day, and especially in recent years. In particular, the heavyweight division has been found most acutely lacking for some time. However, you are correct that heavyweights don't and have not typically "moved like that". Even those who were relatively fast and defensively gifted (e.g. a young Tyson) didn't move as poetically. He moved like a boxer of a much lower w…

At 1:21 and 1:35, Ali does this shuffle thing with his feet. How does one do that? I just tried it, and I can't imagine how I would move my feet that rapidly even with extensive training. I'm pretty lanky. Would it be easier to foot-shuffle if I had Ali's build? Or would it be even harder because of his mass. And does this maneuver have a name? It seems like he does it when he's winding up for a jab combo. To make hi…

I think the name is simply "Ali shuffle".

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#115
He was one of my favorite folks in the world.A very good man.I often read his words for inspiration.He will be missed.

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted thirty years of his life."

"Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them: a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill."

"He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life."

"It's lack of faith that makes people afraid of meeting challenges, and I believed in myself."

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#116
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one's good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhpZoPOfZI

Can any boxing expert explain how he can be that fast? Is it a practice + muscle memory + probablistic decision or is his reaction time that good? Is he anticipating the punches or reacting to them individually?

I'm not a boxing expert, so take this with a pinch of salt. But I expect he uses the same techniques that Bruce Lee advocated in Jeet Kune Do [1], which is about looking for the tiny trigger movements of your opponent and reacting before they've even started really moving (if you look in that video, he sometimes moves out of the way of a punch that doesn't come); probably combined with selling the opponent a 'dummy' to tempt them into making a known move.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kune_Do

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#117
post #14

Muhammad Ali is something we won't allow public figures to be anymore. Being outspoken and standing up for his beliefs, against all repercussions, were his his greatest feat(s). I hope, over all else, his contributions to the human spirit reign over the rest of us. We need another (dozen) Cassius Clays.

Can you imagine the repercussions today for a sportsman or woman who said something like[0]:

"no intelligent white person watching this show, or no intelligent white man in his or her right white mind, want black boys and black girls marrying their white sons and daughters, and in return introducing their grandchildren as half brown, kinky haired black people"

"It ain’t sad because I want my child to look like me, every intelligent person wants their child to look like them, I’m sad because I want to blot out my race and lose my identity? Chinese love Chinese they love the little slanty eye, pretty brown skin babies. Pakistani love their culture, Jewish people love their culture, a lot of catholic wanna be with Catholics and want the religion to stay the same… who would want to spot up yourself and kill your race? You’re a hater of your people if you don’t want to stay who you are. You ashamed of what god made you? You think he made a mistake when he made you?"

[0] From a 1971 interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Y693cSF7E

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#119
post #105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not barbarism when it's consenting adults. Do you think this is OK? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumfights The barbarism in bull fighting and bear baiting lies not in the animal's absence of consent. Animals don't consent to be eaten, but eating animals is [EDIT] not generally considered barbaric. What makes boxing and bull fighting and bear baiting barbaric is the fact that the object of the game is to infli…

Plenty of people think eating animals is barbaric.

That's a minority view. Most people think it's OK as long as the animal is raised and slaughtered humanely. I edited my comment to make it a little more precise.

Re: Muhammad Ali has died

#120
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if is now ingrained in boxing training to move like that -- no one notices a big difference like they did with Ali because everyone is trained to move like that. Looking back through the videos I have to think that none of the heavyweight boxers move like that today. I wonder if there will be a renaissance in boxing where you have a whole generation of boxers moving like Ali. Does anyone follow boxing? Can a…

Boxing is in a bit of a vicious cycle and has been for some time. During Ali's prime boxing was more popular generally. It was a mainstream sport that lots of people watched. It was also going through a golden era with regard to talent especially at the heavy weight level. There was Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Liston all fighting at the same time which of course amplified the popularity. Now boxing doesn't have any of the…

I wonder if the drop in popularity has to do with title bouts moving to pay per view. I've never been interested enough to pay to watch but if it was on network, I probably would have...
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