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Salary Negotiation

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Re: Salary Negotiation

#351

Post by Bahamut »

BuckRogers wrote: post #264
Tactic wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind not naming your number first is advise given only if you are trying to maximize the negotiation. And even then it is quite debatable. I view it instead that I am offering a service. I am well aware of what my service is worth, what my financial needs are and what amount would make me feel satisfied with what I am being paid. So I tell them that number. I also tell them that the number is only negotiable in…

Everyone is talking about this but no one is saying it: how much are your services worth in general? Would you share? Anyone is welcome to answer, not just Tactic. I'm just curious. I'll go first. I know developers that make 70 a year and some that make 120. It does depend where you live of course, but for me personally I need 90K minimum or I won't consider any gig, anywhere. If I can't get that, I go into subsisten…

I've turned down $350k for frontend work before around the Valley (2.5 years of experience at the time) - I have a unique master-level specialty in Angular.js (contributor, major involvement in the open source community including maintainer status in 2 of the 3 most used third party libraries in the ecosystem).

I've not seen anywhere close to that number since (I opted for a $160k position in an industry I like, expanded experience, and the ability to work even as low as 30 hours a week should I choose to), but it has given me supreme confidence to turn down offers that don't have a minimum compensation along with my desired benefits/perks.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#352

Post by cheriot »

jkempe11 wrote: post #297
perishabledave wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you by inform your position? Can you give an example of what to look for?

Well, recruiters are in the unique position of getting to talk to tens (or sometimes hundreds) of candidates a week for any given position, and asking them all a bit about salary usually yields a workable model for the market for any given role. Some recruiters also have access to data from VCs or from other salary reports (there are a number of good institutions that run compensation surveys - access to these usuall…

Especially helpfull for engineers, the salaries and titles of H1B visa holders is public

Re: Salary Negotiation

#353

Post by danieltillett »

jkempe11 wrote: post #297
perishabledave wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you by inform your position? Can you give an example of what to look for?

Well, recruiters are in the unique position of getting to talk to tens (or sometimes hundreds) of candidates a week for any given position, and asking them all a bit about salary usually yields a workable model for the market for any given role. Some recruiters also have access to data from VCs or from other salary reports (there are a number of good institutions that run compensation surveys - access to these usuall…

Do recruiters ever provide this information to candidates for a fee? If I was in the market for a job it would be great to pay an experienced recruiter to objectively judge my skills and say how much I should ask.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#354

Post by BuckRogers »

swombat wrote: post #325
BuckRogers wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get same, equal salary then to the 5-day 40 hour people? Otherwise it would look like you're just profiteering as your main motivator.

Interesting. Why do you think that would be "profiteering as your main motivator" to have as a general principle that as you scale your work you also scale your salary? I'm not sure how that follows. It also seems to be the general principle in all the companies I'm aware of that support part time work, but perhaps there's something I'm missing. I'm all ears.

>Why do you think that would be "profiteering as your main motivator" to have as a general principle that as you scale your work you also scale your salary? I'm not sure how that follows.

I'm in 100% agreement with you. So you do pay less to those who work 4 days a week. That's fine and it makes sense. Just confirming.

Then I don't even need to ask: you're also saying that for every hour over 8 hours staff is paid overtime? That would be consistent with paying 4-day a week folks less. And would be the nail in the coffin that profiteering isn't your main motivator.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#355

Post by BuckRogers »

15155 wrote: post #338
BuckRogers wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably more senior than me, I figured 120 is about what a senior level employee would be worth. Generally speaking of course. Big difference for example, between expert Python dev and expert C++ dev writing display drivers or graphics engines. I don't know exactly what I'm "worth" so that's why I like to ask around. I base what I'm worth off more the going-rate than I do me being a touch below or touch above…

Location plays a very large part in this matter. If you got more specific and said "Django expert" or could sell yourself as such, I would think $140-160k base or more in SF would be totally achievable. But again, it's very difficult to discuss productivity and skill levels in generalities. It's also very difficult to discuss the variations in market wages across cities: Southern California in my experience punches e…

My market is probably more middle of the road for major economic areas, Chicago and Austin. Django is actually what I'm working towards specializing in.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#356

Post by tamana »

ryanSrich wrote: post #259
jkempe11 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a recruiter and I will tell you this: you should abandon this advice, for certain. It's funny - probably the best advice anyone ever gives on negotiation is exactly the opposite of "don't name a number first." It's "anchor high." You should be anchoring to a number that is high but realistic, and negotiating from a position of strength. This is especially true for senior- and late-career individuals who have som…

I honestly never understood the notion of not naming a number first (that is if you know what you're worth). Take the number you want to make, add 15%, and they'll likely negotiate down to the actual number you want. It's really not that hard. Take this as an example: Say you currently make $80k and you want a 10% bump. So you're looking for $88k. Take that number and add 15%. Your ask is now around $100k. They may s…

Your example numbers show how you lastly underestimate what tech jobs pay, and you are inviting an employer to low ball and you won't even know

Re: Salary Negotiation

#357

Post by tamana »

nissimk wrote: post #208
Tactic wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind not naming your number first is advise given only if you are trying to maximize the negotiation. And even then it is quite debatable. I view it instead that I am offering a service. I am well aware of what my service is worth, what my financial needs are and what amount would make me feel satisfied with what I am being paid. So I tell them that number. I also tell them that the number is only negotiable in…

Very well said. I don't find it necessary to maximized my result in a negotiation. I'd like to feel that I did well, but maxing out is not necessary. I've done very well for myself with this strategy so it really can work. I've seen the "refuse to say a number" tactic fail for candidates in the past. I distinctly remember hearing a manager on the phone with an agency recruiter saying that he wasn't going to interview…

And that manager is not someone good to work for

Re: Salary Negotiation

#358

Post by imron »

eweise wrote: post #258
Tactic wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind not naming your number first is advise given only if you are trying to maximize the negotiation. And even then it is quite debatable. I view it instead that I am offering a service. I am well aware of what my service is worth, what my financial needs are and what amount would make me feel satisfied with what I am being paid. So I tell them that number. I also tell them that the number is only negotiable in…

I think it depends on what type of person the company is looking for. If they are looking for a leader then they will respect you more if you bargain hard and maximize your worth. If they're looking for an agreeable doormat, then they will like you more for compromising on your worth. I've found that management likes rank and file engineers to be doormats, easily compromising and agreeable. Imagine if they have to wo…

they have to work hard at the bargaining table, they're also going to work hard trying to get you to work long hours and weekends

Good! My evenings and weekends are valuable to me and I want to work with people who value my time.

If they self-filter because they're a bad place to work, all the better.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#359

Post by phamilton »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #265
mehrdada wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should be anchoring to a number that is high but realistic, and negotiating from a position of strength. I very much agree with you and my other comments in this thread are very much advocating for this position. I'd just like to add an important caveat by saying anecdotally in multiple occasions I've seen friends (notably people who are just moving in to the Valley from elsewhere and/or right out of college) t…

Want to name some numbers? Ideally with context. I'd like to know how high is high in SV. Especially for junior positions.

I'm a young Senior Engineer. I'm low on the tenure side, but I've run successful teams and have deep technical knowledge.

I say $220k total comp and that I will count equity but if it's not liquid it won't be worth much.

I base that off of what I would get at Google or Facebook (including equity).

I've asked around and most companies take it seriously.

For junior engineers, I would say $160k. For mid, $180k - $200k. Again, total comp. Equity counts but at my value, not theirs.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#360

Post by cloudjacker »

dlubarov wrote: post #287
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to name some numbers? Ideally with context. I'd like to know how high is high in SV. Especially for junior positions.

I'd say if you're in SV, have a pretty good background, interview at top-paying public firms like Google/Facebook, get good scores, and negotiate very well, you can expect around - new grad: ~175k - 4 years: ~300k - 6 years: ~350k Note that I'm including equity, expected cash bonuses, 401k matching, and sign-on bonuses (which I normally divide by 4, since 4 years seems like a typical period to stay at these companies…

you should divide by four here too.

First year, what would the person get? $195k, with $160k salary and 35k in stock?

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