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Salary Negotiation

kalzumeus.com

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Re: Salary Negotiation

#341

Post by mquander »

teen wrote: post #291
dlubarov wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say if you're in SV, have a pretty good background, interview at top-paying public firms like Google/Facebook, get good scores, and negotiate very well, you can expect around - new grad: ~175k - 4 years: ~300k - 6 years: ~350k Note that I'm including equity, expected cash bonuses, 401k matching, and sign-on bonuses (which I normally divide by 4, since 4 years seems like a typical period to stay at these companies…

the 4/6 year ones are way too high unless you're going for some sort of specific role they need. like if you specialize in robotics or machine learning

That 4-year number is roughly consistent with both the SRE offer I got recently at Google and the SWE offer a similarly-qualified friend got, and we have no super special domain knowledge.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#342

Post by Retric »

jkempe11 wrote: post #217
whack wrote: post #139

I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…

I am a recruiter and I will tell you this: you should abandon this advice, for certain. It's funny - probably the best advice anyone ever gives on negotiation is exactly the opposite of "don't name a number first." It's "anchor high." You should be anchoring to a number that is high but realistic, and negotiating from a position of strength. This is especially true for senior- and late-career individuals who have som…

The problem is this forces everyone to know the market really well. That's one thing for a recruiter but as actual salaries are often hidden it's a serious information assemitry for most people. And many people especially women really undervalue their skills.

Most people are much better off to simply ask salary ranges as the first question for a recruiter. Don't put it off and don't waste any time. Approximate location should the next question as again it minimizes wasted effort.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#343

Post by patio11 »

dshep wrote: post #20

Love these, but patio11 needs a better microphone setup, its so echo-y and robotic! Please take this as helpful feedback rather than hurtful criticism.

It's actually less the microphone and more that I recorded this at my coworking space, whose only room for recording is literally a glass box. I'm going to try to find another room to do podcasts in -- the audio engineer flagged it, too, but shipped beats perfect.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#344

Post by patio11 »

igonvalue wrote: post #111

Patrick, it seems like this latest episode isn't available on iTunes. Maybe it's related to the error message I see when I load the feed in my browser [0] > This page contains the following errors: > error on line 3559 at column 476: Input is not proper UTF-8, indicate encoding ! Bytes: 0xE3 0x81 0xA8 0xE3 [0] http://www.kalzumeus.com/category/podcasts/feed/

It's in iTunes. Sometimes there is a delay for them to crawl the feed. Another issue might be that, if you haven't listened to me recently, your client might not grab updates. (Totally reasonable since nothing was published in several months.)

Re: Salary Negotiation

#345

Post by tdfx »

BuckRogers wrote: post #324
Tactic wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myself I'm worth about $120k given my experience, the market I'm in and what is standard for benefits in my area. (Minneapolis/St. Paul) And I have had no issue with that. The key to me on top of that is that I am satisfied with that salary. It is not one that would make me look elsewhere with any urgency. Yes, I could try to negotiate more, but I feel no need to and believe that if I got more the company would be pa…

You're probably more senior than me, I figured 120 is about what a senior level employee would be worth. Generally speaking of course. Big difference for example, between expert Python dev and expert C++ dev writing display drivers or graphics engines. I don't know exactly what I'm "worth" so that's why I like to ask around. I base what I'm worth off more the going-rate than I do me being a touch below or touch above…

I make $125 cash comp as a manager. Full stack engineers under me typically make $100-120, more dependent on negotiating skills than experience. Fully remote work environment.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#346

Post by ecesena »

whack wrote: post #139

I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…

The first number is the anchor. If you can truly support an high number, then you should place the anchor high.

In a good negotiation, if you give an info you can expect an info back, so that's also your opportunity to request something. For instance you may want to ask how the bonus structure looks like, or what's their view on remote work.

And gain from there, negotiation is not just about money.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#347

Post by TrickzOnU »

erikb wrote: post #247
TrickzOnU wrote: post #68

Let me share my horror story -- I fell for a company that offered me the same salary (no raise despite big promotion.) Then, he (Division CTO of Fortune 500 medical company) started subtracting salary from this baseline for all my "benefits" like free shuttles, 401k matching, etc. I was supposed to take the lower wage in exchange for amazing work, 3 fully paid conferences a year, yada yadda. Two months into joining,…

You are probably trying to show us how bad your employer is. What I'm reading though, is how you should have walked away at least 5 times in the process. What part of the work is actually "great" btw. I would guess you don't have any other job yet. Because everything sounds very horrible.

It has been a year now. I moved to a high-cost-of-living area where even owning a car is expensive. There is a cost to moving back as well. A lot of it is psychological - I cannot believe i allowed myself to be fooled so badly, it has really shaken my confidence in HR and hiring managers.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#348

Post by majormajor »

dlubarov wrote: post #287
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to name some numbers? Ideally with context. I'd like to know how high is high in SV. Especially for junior positions.

I'd say if you're in SV, have a pretty good background, interview at top-paying public firms like Google/Facebook, get good scores, and negotiate very well, you can expect around - new grad: ~175k - 4 years: ~300k - 6 years: ~350k Note that I'm including equity, expected cash bonuses, 401k matching, and sign-on bonuses (which I normally divide by 4, since 4 years seems like a typical period to stay at these companies…

Not directly related, but that comp ramp-up between years 1-4 and 4-6 seems similar to what I see at my current place, which is starting to cause some discontent and potential retention fun down the line, with people getting used to everything ramping up quickly initially and then slowing down once they get to a more mature level (and title changes get further apart too, since you're expected to do more and more at each role).

Interesting to see similar numbers from elsewhere.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#349

Post by TrickzOnU »

ceejayoz wrote: post #115
TrickzOnU wrote: post #68

Let me share my horror story -- I fell for a company that offered me the same salary (no raise despite big promotion.) Then, he (Division CTO of Fortune 500 medical company) started subtracting salary from this baseline for all my "benefits" like free shuttles, 401k matching, etc. I was supposed to take the lower wage in exchange for amazing work, 3 fully paid conferences a year, yada yadda. Two months into joining,…

Yowch. When you say "subtracting salary", do you mean in the offer, or after you were hired?

I was given a salary figure, until I got on-site for the final round, at which i got a very hard sell and the reveal -- some of the salary was "in kind" -- free shuttle bus, 401k match, etc (all in policy, not in offer letter.) Policy changed shortly after I joined, and I learned the policy change was being discussed months before I joined -- so the hiring manager extracted these concessions knowing full well they perks may be reduced or removed.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#350

Post by majormajor »

BuckRogers wrote: post #324
Tactic wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myself I'm worth about $120k given my experience, the market I'm in and what is standard for benefits in my area. (Minneapolis/St. Paul) And I have had no issue with that. The key to me on top of that is that I am satisfied with that salary. It is not one that would make me look elsewhere with any urgency. Yes, I could try to negotiate more, but I feel no need to and believe that if I got more the company would be pa…

You're probably more senior than me, I figured 120 is about what a senior level employee would be worth. Generally speaking of course. Big difference for example, between expert Python dev and expert C++ dev writing display drivers or graphics engines. I don't know exactly what I'm "worth" so that's why I like to ask around. I base what I'm worth off more the going-rate than I do me being a touch below or touch above…

"Big difference for example, between expert Python dev and expert C++ dev writing display drivers or graphics engines."

I'd encourage you not to sell your earning potential short by negotiating against yourself like this. C++ display driver writers sound more impressive and might be in shorter supply, but so are the companies that need them. Even if it's legitimately harder!

There are a lot of companies who bring in a lot of revenue off of web-stack stuff that need Python devs, and so are in a position where it makes sense for them to pay a lot for that skill set, and that's where the value side comes from.

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