331–340 of 419 posts
I've heard that negotiating a higher salary at companies decreases what you can get for bonuses/profit-sharing. Is that true?
Compare job hopping and seeing 15+% base salary bumps each hop to possible, but not definite (often meager) raises + possible bonuses: rarely is the prospect (gamble) of a bonus worth the career trajectory + salary hit.
The problem with more salary is more responsibility. More likely to be cut if you don't perform at the level commensurate with the salary.
Yep, and this really becomes a problem has you advance in years. I'm a programmer and have been for almost 20 years. When you're younger, you are always negotiating upwards. When you're at a job making 70k and you leave, you go to a new job and ask for 80k. But then you're 40 and making a lot more. Now the question as to what you are offered is different. If they're paying you to be a "programmer", can they really ju…
Instead of being seen as a curmudgeon who could be replaced by four college grads, you're an external, automatically-trusted authority who commands a healthy day rate.
It's just a matter of optics. Though that life isn't for everyone.
I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…
Biggest problem I have is base salary vs overall 'salary'. Recruiters always ask what salary I'm looking for. How does one answer that, when you consider benefits, 401k, average bonus, etc. It could be $10k difference. So, I usually say I need to see the whole package they are offering to get you a number.
All of those other perks are either known, standard, or negotiable after the fact.
In general - save for a publicly traded company issuing RSUs - base salary is the most important factor to be optimizing for.
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I assume everyone starting or working for a for-profit business is primarily (though not solely ) motivated to make money for themselves. Otherwise, they wouldn't be starting or working at a for-profit business.
That assumption doesn't bear out in practice, in my experience. There are plenty of people who believe that for-profit businesses can also achieve great, positive purposes in the world, and want to be a part of it. Cases in point: Tesla and SpaceX. They aren't charities. They are very purposeful.
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In my mind not naming your number first is advise given only if you are trying to maximize the negotiation. And even then it is quite debatable. I view it instead that I am offering a service. I am well aware of what my service is worth, what my financial needs are and what amount would make me feel satisfied with what I am being paid. So I tell them that number. I also tell them that the number is only negotiable in…
I think it depends on what type of person the company is looking for. If they are looking for a leader then they will respect you more if you bargain hard and maximize your worth. If they're looking for an agreeable doormat, then they will like you more for compromising on your worth. I've found that management likes rank and file engineers to be doormats, easily compromising and agreeable. Imagine if they have to wo…
In my experience, companies you actually want to work for will turn away the doormats.
I've actually spoken to a number of companies that have openly stated that they would not interview candidates that didn't request an amount greater than a certain dollar threshold (most recent one I can think of was >$160k base, Santa Monica).
This is the "we want skilled, assertive people" ideology taken to its conclusion.
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You might be able to compare salaries like that, but cross comparing equity is much more difficult.
yeah but equity * likely outcome is going to be comparable to a lottery ticket, not hard cash, unless you are 100% sure you can pick startup winners, and if you can why aren't you just into the funding market making 1000x than a developer per year?
One way to boost your odds towards picking a winner is to join in the employee ~15-25 spots. Early enough that equity is on the table, but late enough that some traction has been proven already to dampen your risk.
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What do you by inform your position? Can you give an example of what to look for?
Well, recruiters are in the unique position of getting to talk to tens (or sometimes hundreds) of candidates a week for any given position, and asking them all a bit about salary usually yields a workable model for the market for any given role. Some recruiters also have access to data from VCs or from other salary reports (there are a number of good institutions that run compensation surveys - access to these usuall…
There is serious information asymmetry between recruiters/employers vs employees, and if information is the best weapon, employees are woefully unequipped to fight that battle.
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Myself I'm worth about $120k given my experience, the market I'm in and what is standard for benefits in my area. (Minneapolis/St. Paul) And I have had no issue with that. The key to me on top of that is that I am satisfied with that salary. It is not one that would make me look elsewhere with any urgency. Yes, I could try to negotiate more, but I feel no need to and believe that if I got more the company would be pa…
You're probably more senior than me, I figured 120 is about what a senior level employee would be worth. Generally speaking of course. Big difference for example, between expert Python dev and expert C++ dev writing display drivers or graphics engines. I don't know exactly what I'm "worth" so that's why I like to ask around. I base what I'm worth off more the going-rate than I do me being a touch below or touch above…
If you got more specific and said "Django expert" or could sell yourself as such, I would think $140-160k base or more in SF would be totally achievable.
But again, it's very difficult to discuss productivity and skill levels in generalities.
It's also very difficult to discuss the variations in market wages across cities: Southern California in my experience punches even higher than the Bay Area. Adjusting for actual cost of living and taxes, actual take-home pay in Washington and Colorado often greatly exceeds the Bay Area.
I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…
There's also the concept of a negotiation anchor. In that it's better to name the first number and make it borderline ridiculous and in your favor. So that anything lower seems like a deal. Hypothetical situation time. I'm a job seeker and my minimum acceptable salary is $100k. You're a recruiter and your range is $80-$120k. Neither of us know the others' number. If I make you say a number first, you would start at t…
I've had a negotiation where I found out that the company was only able to make $2.5k after paying me + overhead (contracting on predefined rates) after they led me on and gave me an offer that met my low number barely after bonuses with zero stock. I rejected multiple times and a VP even called me by the end. That should have been the sign to walk honestly. Evidently, some places have no negotiating power fundamentally because they have no intrinsically compelling work with substantially below market rates and with little means to negotiate up their value proposition to improve their circumstances.
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No one is worth any intrinsic amount. The amount is relative to the work they do, the industry they're in, the state of the economy, how many other people can do that job, how many have actually applied, etc. Any salary formula is entirely arbitrary. We have a pay scale simply because it is a useful tool for conversation, not because it represents any sort of intrinsic property of the person being placed on the pay s…
Nice. Spoken like either 1. A trust fund kiddie with privileges to work for pleasure 2. An older person who purchased their family home before they started costing 3M$