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A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

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Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's (b). If each driver is run in twenty 15-minute (or longer) trials, you have 300 total data points to analyze. If the car was correct in its fingerprinting 270 times, then it was correct 90% of the time.

Yes, but the only way you get a number not divisible by 15 is if, for some number of given drivers, it must have been correct for some trips but incorrect for others. I would not consider those drivers to be "successfully identified". Remember, the goal of this is to isolate individual drivers.

> it must have been correct for some trips but incorrect for others.

No, it could have been inconclusive for the other 10% of the trips, simply stating, "Insufficient data for meaningful answer". So 90% of the time it said, "Oh, this must be DrScump" and the other 10% of the time it said, "I don't know who this is yet, let me keep analyzing the braking patterns"

EDIT: Which is different than the way I stated it in my initial comment. Your reply helped me realize that.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the only way you get a number not divisible by 15 is if, for some number of given drivers, it must have been correct for some trips but incorrect for others. I would not consider those drivers to be "successfully identified". Remember, the goal of this is to isolate individual drivers.

> it must have been correct for some trips but incorrect for others. No, it could have been inconclusive for the other 10% of the trips, simply stating, "Insufficient data for meaningful answer". So 90% of the time it said, "Oh, this must be DrScump" and the other 10% of the time it said, "I don't know who this is yet, let me keep analyzing the braking patterns" EDIT: Which is different than the way I stated it in my…

But this is a binary problem (they did or did not ID the driver); "inconclusive" = did not.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#53
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it must have been correct for some trips but incorrect for others. No, it could have been inconclusive for the other 10% of the trips, simply stating, "Insufficient data for meaningful answer". So 90% of the time it said, "Oh, this must be DrScump" and the other 10% of the time it said, "I don't know who this is yet, let me keep analyzing the braking patterns" EDIT: Which is different than the way I stated it in my…

But this is a binary problem (they did or did not ID the driver); "inconclusive" = did not.

Yes, 10% of the time. The other 90% it did. So.. 90%. Not being snarky or passive aggressive, I just don't understand the issue you're having with that statistic.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or what about if the people who take corners.faster make LESS claims? PS: not trying to defend aggressive driving, I'm not an agresive driver, just saying it'd be interesting if a lot of our assumptions were thrown out the window with that data.

What's the difference between your comment's "LESS" and its parent's "fewer"?

wow, I was sure it said more...

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#55
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure it's as trivial as you seem to be implying, but extending this to more drivers would certainly be a logical next step. Honestly it seems like everyone reading these kinds of papers/articles does a ctrl-f "sample size" before anything else. Bit cynical.

For good reason. It's been easy to do face identification for a very small population for a while. But scaling that to thousands of people has proven quite difficult.

Its perhaps surprising to those within the tech industry, to find out how fast progress has been -- as I recently read

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/17/findface-...

and the HN discussion

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11712197

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#56
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn man... how many people do you let drive your car?

Only me. And given how buggy-as-all-hell the Ford software is for driver displays/interfaces, I wouldn't let it drive itself either.

FYI, those are different projects with vastly different quality requirements... But they do shoot themselves in the foot when they put buggy software right in front of their customer.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#57
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or what about if the people who take corners.faster make LESS claims? PS: not trying to defend aggressive driving, I'm not an agresive driver, just saying it'd be interesting if a lot of our assumptions were thrown out the window with that data.

What's the difference between your comment's "LESS" and its parent's "fewer"?

That depends on what he was trying to do with that comment.

I believe that he's trying to make a distinction between the number of claims filed by people who take corners faster and the size of the claims made by such people when they do file a claim.

Generally, "fewer" is used when talking about things that come in discrete amounts, and "less" when talking about continuous things. For example, if you were comparing the amount of water in two glasses of water you would say that one has less water than the other, but if you were comparing the number of ice cubes in the two glasses you would say one has fewer ice cubes than the other.

However, "less" is often used even for discrete things when there is a unit attach, such as with money. E.g., we might reasonably say either "the waller contained less than $5" or the "the wallet contained less than $10".

Before the late 18th century "less" was used with discrete things. As with many things in grammar, some prescriptivist decided that people were doing it wrong and made a new rule, and we got stuck with it. And like other such bogus rules (such as not splitting infinitives and not ending sentences with prepositions) current usage is tending away from following the rule.

The main argument I've seen that we need different words for comparing discrete things and comparing continuous things is that it is less ambiguous when it would not be clear what word the comparison word applies to. For instance suppose there were two studies of possible cancer treatments. Study A produced 2 promising treatments and study B produced 4 promising treatments. All of the treatments from study A look like they will be better than all of the treatments from study B.

Using the prescriptivist take on "less" and "fewer" we could say that study A has "fewer promising results" (we are comparing the number of results) but study B has "less promising results" (we are comparing the quality of the results).

Anyway, I think that is the distinction he was trying to make.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#58
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how this is a bad thing at all. Currently rates are set on arbitrary things that merely correlate with driving skill, like past record, age, and gender, etc. I'd love to be rewarded for actually being a good driver. Rather than being lumped in with bad drivers who have a high chance of being in $50k accidents, which everyone has to collectively pay for. Driving is also the leading cause of death of young…

>I'd love to be rewarded for actually being a good driver. Rather than being lumped in with bad drivers who have a high chance of being in $50k accidents, which everyone has to collectively pay for. The whole point of insurance is not to lump you into good driver / bad driver categories. If you make bad drivers consistently pay for accidents, then you might as well not have insurance at all, and you'll pay perfectly…

The entire point of insurance is to pay based on risk. Someone with a bad driving record should, and does pay much more for insurance than a normal person. An old person should and does pay more for health or life insurance. A wooden house costs more to get fire insured than a brick building.

The point of insurance is not to let bad drivers get away with their bad driving. It's to make sure you aren't punished for bad luck. But if we can exactly predict the probability you will get in an accident, there is no luck involved, you are just a bad driver.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#59
post #57
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between your comment's "LESS" and its parent's "fewer"?

That depends on what he was trying to do with that comment. I believe that he's trying to make a distinction between the number of claims filed by people who take corners faster and the size of the claims made by such people when they do file a claim. Generally, "fewer" is used when talking about things that come in discrete amounts, and "less" when talking about continuous things. For example, if you were comparing…

No, not that deep. I simply mis-read the parent and though it said "more"...
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