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A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

wired.com

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Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#31

Post by Houshalter »

sverige wrote: post #27

The privacy concern is valid. It won't be long before all new cars are sending data from the sensors to third parties, and it would be unthinkable for the manufacturers to ask for your consent before collecting that data since they'll make money off of it. The article mentions concerns with insurance companies. One I worked for tried to get customers to agree to having their rates adjusted based on data from their ca…

I can't see how this is a bad thing at all. Currently rates are set on arbitrary things that merely correlate with driving skill, like past record, age, and gender, etc.

I'd love to be rewarded for actually being a good driver. Rather than being lumped in with bad drivers who have a high chance of being in $50k accidents, which everyone has to collectively pay for.

Driving is also the leading cause of death of young people, so anything that encourages people to drive safer is a huge net good for society. What's more effective, a sticker that says "buckle up" or "drive slower", or knowing that your insurance company is keeping track of it?

Of course it should be voluntary and opt out. But there could be a huge gain for people who opt in.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#32

Post by function_seven »

DrScump wrote: post #17
rosser wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try parsing it as "90% of drives ", not of drivers .

That doesn't make sense to me. The constraint is 15 minutes total. If drives vs drivers give different data, that could only imply that (a) each driver's 15 minutes spans multiple vehicles, or (b) they make conflicting conclusions for the same driver across multiple trips.

It's (b).

If each driver is run in twenty 15-minute (or longer) trials, you have 300 total data points to analyze. If the car was correct in its fingerprinting 270 times, then it was correct 90% of the time.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#33

Post by Sanddancer »

JimLaheyMD wrote: post #2

"In a study they plan to present at the Privacy Enhancing Technology Symposium in Germany this July" How would this enhance privacy? It seems like it would do the opposite?

At the end of the article, they discuss how the report stresses a need for more secure transmission systems on the CAN bus, as well as potentially including things like permissions-based security

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#34

Post by Retra »

sandworm101 wrote: post #20

Talk about doing things the hard way. With 15 people, I'd bet you could determine the driver simply by the weight sensor in the driver's seat. No need to do any actual driving. You could probably make some progress with radio station settings (volume/channel etc) or even how they adjust the seats/mirrors.

Weight is only one dimensional though, so you'll have more collisions. If two people happen to weigh about the same, then your weight sensor is useless and your driving analysis is not.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#35

Post by Andys »

sverige wrote: post #27

The privacy concern is valid. It won't be long before all new cars are sending data from the sensors to third parties, and it would be unthinkable for the manufacturers to ask for your consent before collecting that data since they'll make money off of it. The article mentions concerns with insurance companies. One I worked for tried to get customers to agree to having their rates adjusted based on data from their ca…

What if it turns out that people who take corners faster make fewer claims?

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#36

Post by geggam »

ThomPete wrote: post #22

Wouldn't this mean that you could do that too based on mouse movement? I.e. couldn't you create a security system based on how you use your mouse?

Was an Ex Ebay'r founded startup tried to recruit me. The mouse movement was part of their security product. Not sure what else they were doing or what happened to them.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#37

Post by Retra »

Houshalter wrote: post #31
sverige wrote: post #27

The privacy concern is valid. It won't be long before all new cars are sending data from the sensors to third parties, and it would be unthinkable for the manufacturers to ask for your consent before collecting that data since they'll make money off of it. The article mentions concerns with insurance companies. One I worked for tried to get customers to agree to having their rates adjusted based on data from their ca…

I can't see how this is a bad thing at all. Currently rates are set on arbitrary things that merely correlate with driving skill, like past record, age, and gender, etc. I'd love to be rewarded for actually being a good driver. Rather than being lumped in with bad drivers who have a high chance of being in $50k accidents, which everyone has to collectively pay for. Driving is also the leading cause of death of young…

>I'd love to be rewarded for actually being a good driver. Rather than being lumped in with bad drivers who have a high chance of being in $50k accidents, which everyone has to collectively pay for.

The whole point of insurance is not to lump you into good driver / bad driver categories. If you make bad drivers consistently pay for accidents, then you might as well not have insurance at all, and you'll pay perfectly in direct proportion to the accidents you are involved in.

Insurance adds fuzziness to the otherwise "perfectly rational" outcome because people that do not behave rationally with respect to accident avoidance and financial planning will be at a severe survival and status disadvantage to those who do. It's like putting safeties on guns to prevent careless people from shooting people or getting shot. It makes the world more forgiving of individual mistakes at public cost.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#38

Post by lorenzhs »

Retra wrote: post #34
sandworm101 wrote: post #20

Talk about doing things the hard way. With 15 people, I'd bet you could determine the driver simply by the weight sensor in the driver's seat. No need to do any actual driving. You could probably make some progress with radio station settings (volume/channel etc) or even how they adjust the seats/mirrors.

Weight is only one dimensional though, so you'll have more collisions. If two people happen to weigh about the same, then your weight sensor is useless and your driving analysis is not.

It's far from useless, it limits the pool of candidates to two. Far easier to distinguish two drivers from each other than fifteen.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#39

Post by DrScump »

function_seven wrote: post #32
DrScump wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense to me. The constraint is 15 minutes total. If drives vs drivers give different data, that could only imply that (a) each driver's 15 minutes spans multiple vehicles, or (b) they make conflicting conclusions for the same driver across multiple trips.

It's (b). If each driver is run in twenty 15-minute (or longer) trials, you have 300 total data points to analyze. If the car was correct in its fingerprinting 270 times, then it was correct 90% of the time.

Yes, but the only way you get a number not divisible by 15 is if, for some number of given drivers, it must have been correct for some trips but incorrect for others. I would not consider those drivers to be "successfully identified". Remember, the goal of this is to isolate individual drivers.

Re: A Car’s Computer Can ‘Fingerprint’ You in Minutes Based on How You Drive

#40

Post by maxerickson »

sverige wrote: post #27

The privacy concern is valid. It won't be long before all new cars are sending data from the sensors to third parties, and it would be unthinkable for the manufacturers to ask for your consent before collecting that data since they'll make money off of it. The article mentions concerns with insurance companies. One I worked for tried to get customers to agree to having their rates adjusted based on data from their ca…

It's already a product.

https://www.progressive.com/auto/snapshot/

(among others)

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