Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Salary Negotiation

kalzumeus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 419 posts

Re: Salary Negotiation

#161

Post by hrayr »

sokoloff wrote: post #97
ohjeez wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just come right out and basically say the latter to inquiries and it's fairly prominent on my resume as well. How do you word it on your resume? (I'd like to steal the verbiage. )

Most people reading this resume online shouldn't bother contacting me. I'm happy at __XXX__ (the work, the business, and the leadership) and very well compensated here. If you believe that you have a position for which you honestly think I'd be interested, please feel free to contact me. I insist however on restricting phone calls to principals only. I have too much to do in my day to field cold-calls from head-hunte…

Just curious, is you current employer aware of your resume and what do they think about it?

Re: Salary Negotiation

#162

Post by logfromblammo »

baddox wrote: post #28
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead, we run a pay evaluation process internally, including feedback about the value of the role and the person from all the people who interviewed the candidate. We publish all that feedback, as well as the suggestion/reasoning of our pay trustees (a group of people who use that feedback to try to place the candidate on our pay scale) None of those factors are why someone is worth $X salary. You say I'm worth $X.…

> You say I'm worth $X. I go get a job offer for $Y. If $Y > $X, you were mistaken. Not necessarily. The first employer says I'm worth $X to them . The fact that I may be worth more than $X to another employer is not a contradiction. In general, there is nothing "wrong" with a particular employer and applicant being unable to agree on a mutually satisfying salary. It doesn't necessarily mean either party made a mista…

I have seen quite a few employers and some of them are noticeably much better at converting developer work into revenues than others. Those companies are able to offer higher salaries even to worse developers, simply because they can make more money on every quality-equivalent unit of work.

The $Y amount may be higher than $X because you are actually worth $Z to a median company, and $Y > $Z because that particular company is in the 90th percentile at turning developer work into revenues, and $Z > $X because that company is in the 20th percentile.

So, generalizing, the company that is capable of offering the most to you is going to be better at managing development teams, which is usually a symptom of being a better employer overall.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#163

Post by linkregister »

dpweb wrote: post #137
Mendenhall wrote: post #106

It was always pretty simple for me personally, If you don't want to pay me what I want, you are free to hire someone else. I find the most important part is being able to walk away, If you negotiate from a position of weakness or need you are behind already. If I am hiring I know what I can afford to pay, what I think the position is "worth" and what I want out of it and make an offer according. I like ideally to pay…

Recently bought a car and went by myself cause a friend and wife didn't even want to talk to the sales guy - such a fear of negotiation. I want to be prepared going in, so the plan was: They have a price, I counter. They counter in the middle. I either take that price or walk, that's it. No further negotiation. Reduced the stress by just sticking to that.

Just make sure you aren't waiting for them to relinquish the keys to your car they took to evaluate its value as a trade-in. I once had to threaten to call the police in order to get the keys back so I could leave!

Re: Salary Negotiation

#164

Post by vibrato »

lasfter wrote: post #146
kaybe wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there evidence that a training class can overcome whatever combination of nature and nurture causes the discrepancy? There is also the issue that the same behaviour is seen differently when coming from men and women. What is assertive in a man can be aggressive and offputting in a woman. Which means you'd have to have different kinds of courses for different genders, and it only starts there (more minority group…

I always hear assertions about negative reactions to assertive women. Has any science been done on it?

Yes, it appears that women are penalized for assertiveness (more than men).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/men-see-powerful-women-a...

https://hbr.org/2013/04/for-women-leaders-likability-a/

Re: Salary Negotiation

#165

Post by cortesoft »

mehrdada wrote: post #151
cortesoft wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the offer comes in way too low, you can choose at that point to give your current salary. If you gave the current salary in beginning, you can't take back that bit of information.

This would work fine except you may not have a ton of time to waste. The problem is, in practice, as someone with an outlier comp, you may end up having to go interview at a company only to realize at the end of the whole interview dance when they cough up a number that such number is nowhere close to your expectations. (That said, I completely agree that it is generally good advice to not disclose your salary expect…

You would have to waste a lot of time for it not to be worth it. Lets say through your entire interview process at multiple companies, it adds an extra 10 hours. If that gets you $10k a year (or more) over 5 years, I am pretty sure that is worth it.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#166

Post by 15155 »

vertex-four wrote: post #149
Mendenhall wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the person applying will be in a position of weakness. That to me is letting "worry" even if real drag you down. I think when you really need something it is even more important to negotiate from a position of strength, if not they will sense it and pick it apart. In some ways its much like dating, does anyone really want the desperate type ?

"Always be able to walk away" is not very good advice to people who don't have the option to walk away, whether people should always have that option or not in a perfect world. "Pretend you're able to walk away" possibly is, but not everyone's good at playing games like that. The alternative to not working is, eventually, losing almost everything you have. The alternative to not having a romantic partner is, well, no…

> not everyone's good at playing games like that.

For those that aren't good at faking it until they make it (negotiation): obtain the opportunity to walk away.

Take the position as offered and immediately begin seeking new options.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#167

Post by fourneau »

whack wrote: post #139

I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…

The way I see it is that it boils down to: how likely will the employer greatly surpass your asking price? If the likelihood is low, you should lead. If the likelihood is high, then you should let them lead.

In my opinion, with negotiations, (as much as people hate negotiations in this thread) nothing ever generically applies as not all people are expert negotiators... (including this advice I guess...)

Re: Salary Negotiation

#168

Post by Normal_gaussian »

linkregister wrote: post #163
dpweb wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently bought a car and went by myself cause a friend and wife didn't even want to talk to the sales guy - such a fear of negotiation. I want to be prepared going in, so the plan was: They have a price, I counter. They counter in the middle. I either take that price or walk, that's it. No further negotiation. Reduced the stress by just sticking to that.

Just make sure you aren't waiting for them to relinquish the keys to your car they took to evaluate its value as a trade-in. I once had to threaten to call the police in order to get the keys back so I could leave!

Threaten to call the police? Call them. Get an incident number. Report them to whatever regulators are around.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#169

Post by JoblessWonder »

zenlikethat wrote: post #153
JoblessWonder wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find its the person who is applying that has the power not the company I think you are assuming the person applying has some sort of safety net (a current job, savings, alternate income.) That is where the BATNA comes into play. Sure, if you are already making an acceptable amount of money to meet your needs, aren't overworked/over-stressed, and relatively satisfied then you are indeed in a position of power. If…

Even in that position you can still negotiate though. A good company won't revoke an offer simply because you asked for more money. And if they won't budge on salary you can ask for more vacation time, etc.

Oh I'm not saying "don't negotiate." Always negotiate.

I'm just saying that OP sounded like he was saying "if they don't meet your demands, walk away." Which is great advice if you can afford to take it.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#170

Post by paulsutter »

Two ways to answer the "current salary" question

- say that your salary expectations depend on the work, the people, the work hours, vacation policy, etc, so it's too early to discuss salary, or

- ask what the company pays people in the same position. They won't tell you, but that establishes concretely that it's private information.

If they do share the information with you, you can respond with "my expectations are higher", or "that's within my expectations". And then if they persist in asking yours, you can choose to answer or to stonewall. You got the data, so now the mystery is over and you have control of the conversation.

This comes across weak, phony, and panderish:

> I think the best way to answer the current salary part is to say something, like that you’re not comfortable sharing that information, and you prefer to focus on the value that you can add to the company, and not what you’re paid at your current job

This sounds clownish, like playing a game:

> “Well, if you’re trying to qualify me for a range, why don’t you tell me the range, and I’ll tell you if I’m in the ballpark?”

This sounds wonky and comes across as an insincere:

> “I’ve been entrusted with a variety of information by my current firm. I intend to keep their confidences on that sort of thing. They consider their salary compensation private.

Post reply on HN