Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Salary Negotiation

kalzumeus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 419 posts

Re: Salary Negotiation

#151

Post by mehrdada »

cortesoft wrote: post #147
whack wrote: post #139

I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…

If the offer comes in way too low, you can choose at that point to give your current salary. If you gave the current salary in beginning, you can't take back that bit of information.

This would work fine except you may not have a ton of time to waste. The problem is, in practice, as someone with an outlier comp, you may end up having to go interview at a company only to realize at the end of the whole interview dance when they cough up a number that such number is nowhere close to your expectations.

(That said, I completely agree that it is generally good advice to not disclose your salary expectations in most cases. This is especially true for junior hackers without full awareness of the market conditions, who I have seen consistently underestimate their salary potential.)

Re: Salary Negotiation

#152

Post by bitwize »

ThomaszKrueger wrote: post #65
OhHeyItsE wrote: post #61

I've had multiple situations where I did answer (honestly, too - before I knew any better) the "dreaded" question up front and had the recruiter tell me: "Wow. You must work for a really great company! We can't even come close to matching that." Process ended right there, countless time saved. So, as with all things, YMMV.

Same here. As soon as I say what I make recruiters usually congratulate me on making what I make and won't call me back. So recruiters are only good for run of the mill, entry level folks, not really for highly skilled or specialized developers.

If they're just looking for butts in seats, why do crooters stop talking to you unless you have at least n years experience (n often quite large) in the client's exact tech stack? "They're looking for a candidate who's ready to hit the ground running..."

Re: Salary Negotiation

#153

Post by zenlikethat »

JoblessWonder wrote: post #119
Mendenhall wrote: post #106

It was always pretty simple for me personally, If you don't want to pay me what I want, you are free to hire someone else. I find the most important part is being able to walk away, If you negotiate from a position of weakness or need you are behind already. If I am hiring I know what I can afford to pay, what I think the position is "worth" and what I want out of it and make an offer according. I like ideally to pay…

> I find its the person who is applying that has the power not the company I think you are assuming the person applying has some sort of safety net (a current job, savings, alternate income.) That is where the BATNA comes into play. Sure, if you are already making an acceptable amount of money to meet your needs, aren't overworked/over-stressed, and relatively satisfied then you are indeed in a position of power. If…

Even in that position you can still negotiate though. A good company won't revoke an offer simply because you asked for more money. And if they won't budge on salary you can ask for more vacation time, etc.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#154

Post by zenlikethat »

mehrdada wrote: post #151
cortesoft wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the offer comes in way too low, you can choose at that point to give your current salary. If you gave the current salary in beginning, you can't take back that bit of information.

This would work fine except you may not have a ton of time to waste. The problem is, in practice, as someone with an outlier comp, you may end up having to go interview at a company only to realize at the end of the whole interview dance when they cough up a number that such number is nowhere close to your expectations. (That said, I completely agree that it is generally good advice to not disclose your salary expect…

As another poster noted, the best way to resolve this is to ask the recruiter up front what the salary range at play is. If they still won't disclose, you have to make a calculated risk based on how much you like the org and how much they seem likely to offer.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#155

Post by nimblegorilla »

whack wrote: post #139

I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…

I think this advice works best for people with esteem issues. If you constantly undervalue your worth then of course other people tend to offer more than your initial amount.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#156

Post by 15155 »

JoblessWonder wrote: post #119
Mendenhall wrote: post #106

It was always pretty simple for me personally, If you don't want to pay me what I want, you are free to hire someone else. I find the most important part is being able to walk away, If you negotiate from a position of weakness or need you are behind already. If I am hiring I know what I can afford to pay, what I think the position is "worth" and what I want out of it and make an offer according. I like ideally to pay…

> I find its the person who is applying that has the power not the company I think you are assuming the person applying has some sort of safety net (a current job, savings, alternate income.) That is where the BATNA comes into play. Sure, if you are already making an acceptable amount of money to meet your needs, aren't overworked/over-stressed, and relatively satisfied then you are indeed in a position of power. If…

> Not all people have the ability to walk away.

So you hire someone in a weaker position for less or even exactly what they're worth: 6 months later, when they're now in a stronger (employed) position, they find a new employer and you're stuck with the ramp-up and churn tab.

It's a seller's market right now. The biggest advantage an employer holds is the disparity in information; most underpaid people aren't aware they're underpaid.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#157

Post by linkregister »

daxfohl wrote: post #144
whack wrote: post #139

I've heard this "don't name a number first" advice so many times, but personally, it never seems to work. My current comp is significantly higher compared to others with my level of experience. So when I refuse to give a number, the recruiter ends up guessing a number that is significantly lower, and making a lowball offer. I've also had many other experiences where after many hours of interviews, I find out that the…

Perhaps try turning it on its head. Ask the interviewer what their salary range is, before they ask you.

This sounds like some naive advice. Almost always salary range is discussed through a recruiter. This likely will be fruitless and will make you look like an amateur.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#158

Post by cortesoft »

OhHeyItsE wrote: post #61

I've had multiple situations where I did answer (honestly, too - before I knew any better) the "dreaded" question up front and had the recruiter tell me: "Wow. You must work for a really great company! We can't even come close to matching that." Process ended right there, countless time saved. So, as with all things, YMMV.

You can figure that information out pretty quickly without needing to disclose your current salary. It might take a LITTLE longer, but not THAT much longer. I think an extra few hours is worth multiple thousands of dollars every year.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#159

Post by mehrdada »

zenlikethat wrote: post #154
mehrdada wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would work fine except you may not have a ton of time to waste. The problem is, in practice, as someone with an outlier comp, you may end up having to go interview at a company only to realize at the end of the whole interview dance when they cough up a number that such number is nowhere close to your expectations. (That said, I completely agree that it is generally good advice to not disclose your salary expect…

As another poster noted, the best way to resolve this is to ask the recruiter up front what the salary range at play is. If they still won't disclose, you have to make a calculated risk based on how much you like the org and how much they seem likely to offer.

Yes, and many savvy recruiters would make you make the calculated risk anyway. Note that at that stage, the recruiters are highly incentivized to say or allude to "we can beat everyone/are competitive" without saying a number and make you interview with the company at the beginning of the process (with various excuses, including not having the authority to talk about actual numbers and that decision being prorogued to a distinct person/team, but rest assured that we beat others according to your interview performance) and you later learn their guesstimate was far off.

Re: Salary Negotiation

#160

Post by bphogan »

toyg wrote: post #141
xviia wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course Google and Facebook are not going to send candidates to negotiation classes; they would stand to lose from such an arrangement. Rather, there are many ways to approach this: 1. Salary negotiation could be included within curriculum at CS schools. (Schools would love if alumni made more money!) 2. Techniques could be included in books (like "Soft Skills"), podcasts, etc. 3. The culture in Silicon Valley coul…

> 1. Salary negotiation could be included within curriculum at CS schools. This is such a good idea. The modern school system oscillates between industrial training and academic pursuit, and very practical skills like this one (or householding finances) which could directly benefit the actual person, are terribly neglected. What is it that stops teachers from talking about everyday matters related to money? Is it the…

Taught software dev for four years in higher ed. I always had modules on resume/cover letter, behavioral interviews, core value matching, self promotion, salary negotiation, and other job-related things.

Student feedback always suggested these were incredibly valuable lessons.

Post reply on HN