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Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#81

Post by gaius »

petewailes wrote: post #55
gaius wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear Such as a highly educated media worker, has no fear of the factory closing because the company has found somewhere with lower taxes and relaxed pollution laws? This is the appeal of Trump: he is the only candidate who doesn't want to send his demographics jobs offshore. It absolutely makes perfect sense for…

Or maybe the factory closing is a net benefit long term. Was losing millions of jobs in the farming sector a bad thing? Or the automation of the glass industry in the 1930's and 1940's that increased production and cleaned up emissions? Is the move to driverless vehicles and what that'll do to the logistics industry bad? There's lots of examples of people losing jobs. That's sad for the individual, but long term it's…

Sure, but telling an ordinary worker that they need to give up their livelihood in the now, for a net long term benefit that he or she may not live to see, is a hard sell.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#82

Post by TruthAndDare »

Kaizyn wrote: post #26
petewailes wrote: post #3

Pithy answer: because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear. When you have a simple world view, nuance is always going to escape you. An educated person can understand that the world isn't simple, which will lead to a more liberal view, as liberal views tend to be based on the assumption that angry, narrow world view responses aren't a good thing. Some…

May I refer you to an oldie but goodie: 'The Disadvantages of an Elite Education' by William Deresiewicz: https://theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite...

>It didn’t dawn on me that there might be a few holes in my education until I was about 35. I’d just bought a house, the pipes needed fixing, and the plumber was standing in my kitchen.

Hehe, the obvious hole in his education was of course that he couldn't fix his pipes himself. :)

Anyway, would you care to summarize or just briefly mention what point the article argues?

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#83

Post by lake99 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #15

For perspective, what in the US is called "liberal" in the rest of the world is rather to the right of centre. The two parties are pulling apart from each other but to outsiders they remain very similar both in policy and ideology, at least at the national level. Neither is talking of actual reform, only incremental change.

> in the rest of the world is rather to the right of centre

I find "rest of the world" hard to justify. The Indian right-wing are Hindu hardliners, but economically not all that different from the "center-left" INC, both of which, are IMO, way more left-wing than the US Democratic party when it comes to economics. Socially, all parties here pander to their regional (as opposed to national) voterbases. The Pakistani right-wing also seems to oppose economic liberalism (i.e. capitalism). Looking beyond this region, each country seems to have its own "left-right" divide, while not sharing much in the ideology of another country's "left-right" divide.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#84

Post by jadyoyster »

realusername wrote: post #69

Unpopular opinion on HN, but people are mostly liberals when the current system works for them and it's even more visible as observe the political spectrum outside the US. It's easier to say "the market solves everything" when it works for you. When it does not work for them, they turn either to the right or the left side. As the current system is mostly falling apart for the middle class, you then have a raising far…

You're thinking of what "liberal" means in most of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

But the article talks about a different kind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_State...

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#85

Post by nickysielicki »

petewailes wrote: post #39
nickysielicki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I listen closely, I'm pretty sure that I can hear you patting yourself on the back through my computer. Your comment boils down to saying, "Because education opens your mind," which is completely asinine. Political science and philosophy are not young fields. Where would Aristotle, Hobbes, Machiavelli, Locke, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin or Madison fall today? Are you telling me that you find it reasonable to thi…

I didn't say left or right, or Democrat/Republican once. I specifically chose examples that would reflect that both sides of the political spectrum get wrong. The left doesn't have exclusive ownership of liberalism, nor does the right always find itself to be illiberal. Fear and ignorance however can abound on both sides, leading to illiberal opinions. I'm sure some of those mentioned would be left and right, as well…

> I didn't say left or right, or Democrat/Republican once.

Okay, but the article did, and so do the statistics, and that was certainly the framing of your original comment. The crux of the question is why our universities are churning out individuals that align so strongly with the politics of the left, not necessarily liberalism.

I am completely comfortable admitting that policies of the right are sold more often with FUD than policies of the left. What I resent is the implication that there isn't an argument to be made beyond the FUD.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#86

Post by eivarv »

tehwalrus wrote: post #74
realusername wrote: post #69

Unpopular opinion on HN, but people are mostly liberals when the current system works for them and it's even more visible as observe the political spectrum outside the US. It's easier to say "the market solves everything" when it works for you. When it does not work for them, they turn either to the right or the left side. As the current system is mostly falling apart for the middle class, you then have a raising far…

What do you think Liberal means? In the UK, as well as in the USA, it generally doesn't mean "the market solves everything" (You might be thinking of Libertarianism[1]). The article explicitly references redistributive economic views, quite the reverse of the market-centric view you attach to the label. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Generally, when people say "liberal" in Europe they mean "economically liberal", while people mean "socially liberal" in the US.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#87

Post by gonzo41 »

Raticide wrote: post #79
tehwalrus wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think Liberal means? In the UK, as well as in the USA, it generally doesn't mean "the market solves everything" (You might be thinking of Libertarianism[1]). The article explicitly references redistributive economic views, quite the reverse of the market-centric view you attach to the label. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

In Aus the right wing party is the Liberal party.

Mapping Australian politics to the USA is crazy. All sides end up being really left in comparison. Even sanders views on guns are right wing in Australia.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#88

Post by beardicus »

petewailes wrote: post #3

Pithy answer: because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear. When you have a simple world view, nuance is always going to escape you. An educated person can understand that the world isn't simple, which will lead to a more liberal view, as liberal views tend to be based on the assumption that angry, narrow world view responses aren't a good thing. Some…

I don't mind this answer in general, but liberals also have big issues with anti-vax and anti-gmo sentiments. I don't think they're immune to uniformed fear-mongering and sticking their fingers in their ears.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#89

Post by arjun1296 »

gallonofmilk wrote: post #19
Fej wrote: post #4

The two parties have been getting more polarized, that much is clear. The problem with the GOP from an educated person's perspective is that many, if not most of its politicians get elected through anti-intellectual rhetoric. Trump is the most extreme example of this. He makes no actual arguments and just attacks his detractors. An educated group taught to embrace science will certainly take issue with leaders who ig…

> GOP is the party of creationists and climate deniers... how is this statement different than e.g. "the democratic party is the party of socialists and communists"? they're both bold assertions on a large group of people that are unlikely to be true for the majority... to be honest it just sounds smug

I have to second this. Because, sometimes people would want to generalize everything with only small amount of data.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#90

Post by ZeroGravitas »

blowski wrote: post #47
tommeader wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your comment and had a quick think, and it occurred to me that it's likely to do with nationalism. Most liberal political parties' views on immigration etc. tend to put off the voters you are talking about. Most of the right winged parties tend to emphasise (taking your example) British business and there's a lot of dey tuk urrr jerrbbs syndrome that comes from these types.

Why do they believe it? Obviously, in any one election you can say it's the headlines of the day combined with the personalities of the leaders. So are working class people repeatedly irrational in voting for right-wing parties? Interestingly, UKIP are combining left-wing economics with right-wing social policies, and have made a lot of ground with the working class. Arguably, this is Trump's constituency in the US a…

The only UKIP MP wants to increase immigration from third world countries. I'm not sure that message gets through to the voters somehow. So like Trump, they surf on a wave on xenophobia, with little interest in actually following through with their promises.
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