Live data from Hacker News

Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

nytimes.com

71–80 of 229 posts

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#71
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that you do not see democrats stumping about the benefits of communism. You do see GOP candidates openly denying climate change and denouncing Darwinism as a left-wing plot. One has decided to become more extreme than the other.

Climate change? What does that mean? It used to be global warming but the facts were so blatantly unsupportive that the sly shift to 'climate change' was adopted. Now it's a mantra for unthinking people. But it works because heads I win, tails you lose. The climate is always changing. Temperature changes are slight and hedged with ifs and buts. Now if you mean that the CO2 level in the atmosphere has increased from t…

>> ... is a disastrous phenomenon we should discourage.

Yes. Google methane and permafrost melting.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#72
I'm an upper-middle class, over-educated professional expert, and I'm strongly liberal for selfish reasons: mostly, I want to live in a climate of social peace, and would prefer to be surrounded by people who foster a mood of solidarity and benevolence, rather than a cut-throat and ever-worsening competitive mindset.

So sure, one way is to protect myself and those I love behind a gated community. But that's pretty much voluntarily throwing myself to jail, I'd rather make it less necessary for others to be aggressive against my kin. I believe it requires more (and smarter) redistribution.

Another reason why it's my selfish interest, as a professional expert, to continuously reshuffle wealth, is that my social value resides in what I know and in my ability to learn, not in my family's accumulated wealth. Stabilising accumulated wealth, especially across generations, would make it harder to use my skills in order to climb higher on the social ladder.

Is my education a factor in this view? Probably.

* It helps me grasping some sociological insights which ought to be obvious. For instance, while hearing political speeches about wealth (re)distribution, I stay aware that the property laws are a social construct that must be agreed upon and can be altered at will by society, not a natural (let alone a God-given) law.

* It exposed me to a lot of competition, in school then at work, and although I've been a winner on average, I aspire to more fulfilling activities than turning others into losers. I have no revenge to take on others people, I don't enjoy crushing them.

* Having gone from penniless undergrad to minimum-wage PhD student to well-paid junior then senior specialist, I've experienced a variety of wealth levels. As a result I'm convinced that once basic needs are addressed, monetary incentives don't work the way Adam Smith' sycophants pretend they do. Money's meaningful as a way to keep score, and to compare myself among my social peers; but taxes don't affect that much, as long as they don't reverse relative wealth between potential peers.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#73
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually true? Plenty of former Russians are very anti socialist, because of their experience with communism. They would say that their larger experience causes them to fear things that sound good in theory, but are terrible in practice. Either way, I doubt you could get away with saying they have a simple worldview without nuance. I think your view really boils down to "i'm right they're wrong, so of course…

How does one get to be a former Russian?

By giving up your citizenship.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#74

Unpopular opinion on HN, but people are mostly liberals when the current system works for them and it's even more visible as observe the political spectrum outside the US. It's easier to say "the market solves everything" when it works for you. When it does not work for them, they turn either to the right or the left side. As the current system is mostly falling apart for the middle class, you then have a raising far…

What do you think Liberal means? In the UK, as well as in the USA, it generally doesn't mean "the market solves everything" (You might be thinking of Libertarianism[1]).

The article explicitly references redistributive economic views, quite the reverse of the market-centric view you attach to the label.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#75
This has always confused me. There are some rich texts based on beautiful rigor on the side of the conservatives like freidman and Hayek. Goldwater also approaches things in a very principled manner. Arthur brooks' latest book is similar.

On the other than, I have not come across any liberal text, yet, that makes a good convincing case for liberalism. I would love to get some recommendations. I'm interested in principled arguments for liberalism. If there are so many highly educated people who are liberal, I would assume there are certain foundational texts that argue their position. Basically, I'm looking for "freedom to choose" of the left.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're answer boils down to "because liberals are right and the others are wrong" I disagree. I read the OP's answer as, "The more education you have, the more you're prepared to accept the possibility that you're wrong." This leads to a greater acceptance of viewpoints (or at least the right to hold them) which you don't necessarily agree with, which is basically liberalism in a nutshell.

>"The more education you have, the more you're prepared to accept the possibility that you're wrong." I've never met or seen anyone who self-identifies with a specific political label who was willing to accept they might be wrong. That includes liberals. To be honest, the inability to consider alternative viewpoints is an attribute I associate strongly with liberals in particular.

"Libertarianism is wedded to an epistemological humility...we know we don’t know as much as we think we know."

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#77

Unpopular opinion on HN, but people are mostly liberals when the current system works for them and it's even more visible as observe the political spectrum outside the US. It's easier to say "the market solves everything" when it works for you. When it does not work for them, they turn either to the right or the left side. As the current system is mostly falling apart for the middle class, you then have a raising far…

What you describe is conservatism, not liberalism.

Edit: downvotes? really?

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#78
post #58
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vote in accordance with my principles, even if it is against my immediate self-interest. Perhaps they are doing the same.

Why do you have those principles?

I'm not exactly sure. Perhaps because they're simple, rational, and can be universalized.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#79

Unpopular opinion on HN, but people are mostly liberals when the current system works for them and it's even more visible as observe the political spectrum outside the US. It's easier to say "the market solves everything" when it works for you. When it does not work for them, they turn either to the right or the left side. As the current system is mostly falling apart for the middle class, you then have a raising far…

What do you think Liberal means? In the UK, as well as in the USA, it generally doesn't mean "the market solves everything" (You might be thinking of Libertarianism[1]). The article explicitly references redistributive economic views, quite the reverse of the market-centric view you attach to the label. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

In Aus the right wing party is the Liberal party.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#80
post #18

And I guess the converse question which has vexed socialists for decades - why do so many of the poor vote for centre-right, business-friendly parties? For example, why did so many working class people vote for Thatcher in UK in the 1980s? Why are they not massively in favour of Jeremy Corbyn right now? I'm not saying it's irrational. But sometimes it's odd to hear people who need the government to subsidise their mi…

I have also considered this question, my answer is that the party on the "right" will have a core mission of maintaining the power and wealth of the powerful and wealthy.

This is, unsuprisingly, not a great vote winner for the masses. So around this core mission they need to build a platform, and so they pick the easiest way to attract voters to this cause up until the point when they get a majority that's able to actually fulfil the core mission.

This explains lots of interesting things about politics. Why do the right hate foreigners, gays, athiests, muslims, transexuals etc. Why do they love patriotisms and wars and the good old days? Is there any obvious link between "good business" or "small government" and hating gays? The basic answer is that it's a cheap way to rally people to your cause.

Nowadays it's common for right wing people to be openly gay, when for a long time they had to be hypocritical and keep it secret while attacking their own community. But cleary there's no direct link between sexuality and political orientation, the party just decided to start a culture war against a powerless minority for their own profit and some people ended on the wrong side of the line.

Just think Buzzfeed but for politics, they want your click/vote, and they'll plumb the depths of human psychology to find out what they need to say to get it.

Corbyn is like the anti-buzzfeed. Dry boring headlines about what's actually important. Let's try pacificism, and consider that perhaps the people who died on the other side of our wars were actually human too.

So I would say it's irrational, most people are if they don't put time and effort into not being. And if someone has a financial interest in you not being rational, they have a good head start and some obvious levers to push to get what they want.

Post reply on HN