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Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

nextcloud.com

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Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#111

Post by CaptSpify »

mcherm wrote: post #110
CaptSpify wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've seen anyone say owncloud is not responsible. Yes, they fucked up, and royally. But in the end, you can't trust them to not fuck up. You have to trust that they will make a mistake, so be prepared for it. Doing backups right is just really hard.

> Doing backups right is just really hard. Which, I think, was alexggordon's point. That he no longer wanted to manage the data himself because it was a hard problem, better managed by teams of professionals who have the time to do things like verify backups because they can amortize the cost of that effort over tens of thousands of customers.

But unless you give them access to decrypt the data, you can't trust them to make sure it's valid. It doesn't matter how good they are at their job.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#112

Post by jancborchardt »

LionessLover wrote: post #85
stp-ip wrote: post #7

9 of the top 10 contributors in addition to the project founder and the lead security engineer are pushing this effort. Good foundation to fork and support users. Let's hope this brings the transparency, openness and community awareness owncloud/nextcloud always needed.

Given the amount of negative voices I hear each time OwnCloud is mentioned - and that includes German tech websites where this German company is mentioned more frequently - I don't know why the departure of the original developers should necessarily be a bad thing. The amount of negativity of previous OC users was unusual, too much to put it down with a "you can't satisfy everybody". I'm not even talking about the "O…

> since it was a startup founded by techies for the longest time

Well … we do have capable people who know how to properly design and develop products. We always work to make it easy to use for normal people and not only for techies. And I think the success proves that we did at least something right.

Disclaimer: I was the design lead for ownCloud and now moved on to Nextcloud.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#113

Post by jancborchardt »

educar wrote: post #80

I feel sad for ownCloud and Nextcloud. ownCloud has a brand and this fork dilutes it. It will be on everyone's mind especially since the founder has left to create a competitor. For Nextcloud, unless they can explicitly state why this fork exists, it's hard to side with them. What kind of ideological differences are we talking about? Sure, you don't need to throw around personal accusations or finger point but it wou…

It’s not a »risk which was taken«. ownCloud started out as a pure open source project and the company was formed later.

Having it under a free software license / open source is exactly so that the community can step in when there is a problem with the company.

Disclaimer: I am one of the people who left ownCloud for Nextcloud. Also one of the first contributors to the project when it was still very young, and the company didn’t exist yet.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#114

Post by jancborchardt »

mnutt wrote: post #30

I'm curious to hear if Nextcloud is going to be rewriting the iOS mobile client from scratch, since it's GPL and Owncloud owns the copyrights so is the only one who can relicense for Apple.

Most likely this is what needs to happen sooner or later. For now the existing iOS app can be used of course since it can connect to any ownCloud/Nextcloud server. Or any WebDAV app, for that matter cause we support open standards.

We will make sure though that this problem does not arise again since there will be a Nextcloud foundation which is in full control of the copyrights.

Disclaimer: I am the former designer of ownCloud and moved on to Nextcloud.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#115

Post by LukasReschke »

Renner1 wrote: post #105

A year ago I reviewed most of the popular "Self-hosted 'Cloud'" packages and found they all had pretty ugly history (security vulnerabilities in particular) and the technologies used didn't inspire confidence in the developers (when data security and integrity are on the table, PHP developers wouldn't be my first choice, nor any choice). Are there any decent tools out there today or is it still the same situation?

Good questions! Note, that I'm affilated with Nextcloud so obviously a bit biased.

Only because a project is very transparent about security vulnerabilities does not necessarily mean it's inherently insecure. In fact, at ownCloud we found all critical vulnerabilities ourself and also run a successful bug bounty program. (for Nextcloud we are also considering one)

Check https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11821854 for more insights.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#116

Post by jancborchardt »

hn234234 wrote: post #55

Having contributed a tiny bit to ownCloud, I enjoyed working with the people that now left to start Nextcloud. I think they were the more technical minded people on the team at ownCloud, compared to the sales persons of which there seem to be an awful lot. Good luck!

Thank you, very cool to hear! :)

You are of course very welcome to contribute again – just check https://github.com/nextcloud or join us in IRC #nextcloud or #nextcloud-dev (freenode).

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#117

Post by educar »

jancborchardt wrote: post #113
educar wrote: post #80

I feel sad for ownCloud and Nextcloud. ownCloud has a brand and this fork dilutes it. It will be on everyone's mind especially since the founder has left to create a competitor. For Nextcloud, unless they can explicitly state why this fork exists, it's hard to side with them. What kind of ideological differences are we talking about? Sure, you don't need to throw around personal accusations or finger point but it wou…

It’s not a »risk which was taken«. ownCloud started out as a pure open source project and the company was formed later. Having it under a free software license / open source is exactly so that the community can step in when there is a problem with the company. Disclaimer: I am one of the people who left ownCloud for Nextcloud. Also one of the first contributors to the project when it was still very young, and the com…

Yes, the risk was taken when the company was formed. I didn't mean that it was taken after the company was formed.

I am a long time ownCloud use. iirc, it was even announced on planetkde first.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#118

Post by RaleyField »

tomc1985 wrote: post #90
antx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, sorry about your loss. Then again, please understand that NO, you didn't have a backup. What you had was a single copy (probably a simple rsync, am I right?)... that is worth nothing in case of corruption or voluntary mischief. Learn from your mistakes. Either use a solution that has a retention policy, or don't do backups at all.

So, what, everyone is cool with owncloud pushing encryption-breaking updates? What the fuck is that about? The way apologists step up to the defense of stuff like this is appalling. The 'hard' stuff like this is supposed to be dealt with before the public release. Just because one has a backup doesn't mean that other programmers should force them to rely on it (whether they intended to or not... the point is that thi…

> Normals HATE technology bullshit like this.

Judging by the frequency of security breaches they don't hate it nearly as much as we would want.

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