Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons • Hacker News Board

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#261

Post by davesque » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:49 PM UTC

internaut wrote: post #240

davesque wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the main point of the article was not really that Thiel had done something wrong. The point was that, given the average person's (not tech nerds, mind you) understanding of silicon valley's utopian dreams, the revelation of Thiel's secrecy is not going to look good. It's a matter of public opinion, whether or not that's fair. I agree, actually. I think big tech would be wise to put its money where its mouth…

> The point was that, given the average person's (not tech nerds, mind you) understanding of silicon valley's utopian dreams, the revelation of Thiel's secrecy is not going to look good. Believe me, the average person doesn't know jack shit about our utopian ideals. The idea they have even heard of them in passing is probably a Silicon Valley conceit. Do a vox pop on the streets of a city that is not San Francisco. D…

You'd better hope this is true/continues to be true. If there's anything the latest election season has shown us, it's that a lot of people resent big, secret money.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#262

Post by st3v3r » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #39

EddieSpeaks wrote: post #30

Gawker is utter shite and it's a dangerous tabloid. I have no idea why anyone with a sane mind would be on their side in this issue. this is just a revenge story, let it go!

Because I am free speech absolutist which means defending speech that I don't like. There were other ways to nail gawker - copyright infringement comes to mind.

So you believe that publishing private citizen's sex tapes falls under free speech? That outing others as gay falls under free speech?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#263

Post by bambax » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #219

Extremely wealthy people are just like any other group of people in that they come in all shapes and sizes. Here, one very wealthy individual used his money to fund someone else's lawsuit. He did so secretly. He did so against an organization that had harmed him and against which he presumably wanted payback but that also had done a gratuitously damaging and sleazy act as part of a pattern of sleazy acts upon which i…

> the logic of this piece - Mr. Thiel did x as a private act in his life, therefore all Silicon Valley tech billionaires stand indicted

It's a little disingenuous to characterize the logic of this piece thusly.

Mr Thiel is not just some guy, he's the main guru of the Silicon Valley crowd, a major "idea machine" who's constantly quoted, etc.

What the author is saying is more akin to this: we were used to seeing tech billionaires as "different" (more pure, better), and this episode shows they in fact aren't.

The argument is defensible, esp. with all the talk about disruption and "changing the world". Some things are new, some certainly do change, but "the world" does not seem very different.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#264

Post by csallen » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:52 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #216

bduerst wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subject of the case is a red herring. Typically in these situations, a settlement is reached or insurance covers the damages. That didn't happen. Thiel had an axe to grind against Gawker, invested $10m in the litigation, and pushed the case past settlement offers - even removing a claim that allowed insurance to cover damages. It focused on maximizing the damage to Gawker, which isn't what civil court is typicall…

Precisely. The legal system has certain informal but crucial checks and balances in it. One of them is that the cost and uncertainty of litigation make it in everyone's interest to settle, and in addition insurance creates incentives to settle. A third party purposely removing those incentives distorts the process. Also to this general point, another check and balance for civil litigation are the reputational and dis…

You're advocating a flawed legal system. You're basically saying: The legal system can be abused by any rich person with a vendetta, therefore shame on Thiel for abusing it.

However, it's not feasible (or desirable) to put an end to rich people or vendettas. Thus, isn't the best option here to fix the legal system itself?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#265

Post by jamesrcole » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

further_tech wrote: post #97

Artistry121 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either way he righted a wrong. His outcome was to stop a media service from releasing non-important but damaging information and Gawker's was to exploit private information illegally obtained for profit. It's a better way to spend money than on a boat.

The same could be said about any media company. He did not "righted a wrong". This was a vicious "eye for an eye".

> He did not "righted a wrong".

go on...

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#266

Post by juped » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

There's a deep tragedy in Thiel financing the lawsuit. The tragedy is that you apparently need a billionaire's backing to get any sort of justice against something like Gawker.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#267

Post by abandonliberty » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #219

Extremely wealthy people are just like any other group of people in that they come in all shapes and sizes. Here, one very wealthy individual used his money to fund someone else's lawsuit. He did so secretly. He did so against an organization that had harmed him and against which he presumably wanted payback but that also had done a gratuitously damaging and sleazy act as part of a pattern of sleazy acts upon which i…

It seems like we're entirely way off base here thanks to a piece that seems like a well written piece of propaganda by a media consultant.

The NYT version has many more facts and significantly less unsubstantiated extrapolation. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/business/dealbook/peter-th...

One better topic is: In our society you need a wealthy patron to help protect you if someone posts defamation or something illegally obtained from you. If someone stole and posted my sextape, I would need 10 million dollars. What happens to society when laws can only be enforced by the wealthy?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#268

Post by cloudjacker » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 6:00 PM UTC

emblem21 wrote: post #160

Gawker Media is a Cayman Island corporation founded by a foreign national. It does not engage in journalism. It is a blog designed to shift the Overton Window for Jon Stewart's fanbase into normalizing extreme political agendas. Are there any cases that show foreign companies that exist 100% as a tax shelter, founded by a foreign national, have first amendment rights?

A fun discussion but this case isn't about the first amendment.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#269

Post by zem » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 6:00 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #260

CPLX wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it's hopelessly naive. It takes time for people who have been suddenly vaulted into the position of being the ruling class to realize that they are regarded as such. Silicon Valley as a culture still sees itself as a scrappy underdog. They see startups as small underfunded rebels trying to disrupt rich and powerful corporate interests. They see themselves as unstylish a…

Peter Thiel funding a lawsuit is far from the center of power and social control. In this, he's merely a petitioner, hoping the true center of power and social control (the courts and lawmakers) will act in his favor.

except that having effectively unlimited amounts of money to keep throwing at a lawsuit is a depressingly good predictor of success.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#270

Post by ben_jones » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #263

grellas wrote: post #219

Extremely wealthy people are just like any other group of people in that they come in all shapes and sizes. Here, one very wealthy individual used his money to fund someone else's lawsuit. He did so secretly. He did so against an organization that had harmed him and against which he presumably wanted payback but that also had done a gratuitously damaging and sleazy act as part of a pattern of sleazy acts upon which i…

> the logic of this piece - Mr. Thiel did x as a private act in his life, therefore all Silicon Valley tech billionaires stand indicted It's a little disingenuous to characterize the logic of this piece thusly. Mr Thiel is not just some guy, he's the main guru of the Silicon Valley crowd, a major "idea machine" who's constantly quoted, etc. What the author is saying is more akin to this: we were used to seeing tech b…

It was ironically Chris Sacca (Of Twitter and Uber fame) who said in a Bill Simmons podcast in regards to Trump something akin to:

"The American people trust Billionaires implicitly because they are successful and therefore worthy of admiration".

Again not a direct quote and it wasn't said of the context of "I believe this is true" but just an observation he had made. I'll take it a step further and say Americans think wealthy and successful people are implicitly better then everybody else even if they received their wealth and success from their parents.