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Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

reuters.com

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Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#111

Post by NathanKP »

skylan_q wrote: post #102
supergirl wrote: post #11

I wonder what's the connection, if any, between the author of the article and Gawker. If he's the same guy I found on Linkedin, he seems to be working for some kind of PR company for hire; also confirmed by the article footnote. I hope nobody takes this article only for what it is but also questions why it is.

I wonder what's the connection, if any, between the author of the article and Gawker. I'm going to warn you: if you apply this pattern of thinking in all sorts of spheres of life you're going to lose a lot of friends.

I would rather lose friends than have untrustworthy influences in my life.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#112

Post by gardano »

byuu wrote: post #38
NhanH wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is the difference between "bankroll personal vendettas" and "fight against what you believe is bad"? The latter has to be broke and the former isn't?

Funding a secret lawsuit against a company to try and destroy them for outing you as being gay is not good behavior. This has dangerous precedent for freedom of speech in journalism. If what Gawker did was illegal in outing him, he should have sued for that. If it were just morally objectionable, he should have called them on it and let the public decide how to respond. What this lawsuit says is, "say something about…

In an ideal world, what you say is probably correct.

In the real world, the Streisand Effect comes into play.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#113

Post by jdmichal »

threatofrain wrote: post #28
bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

I don't think the problem is the fact that Peter Thiel tossed money in the direction of a lawsuit. The issue is that money matters in justice, and that Peter Thiel coincidentally put his money somewhere did not make this so. People are focusing shame on Peter Thiel today but that's the wrong place. There will always be rich people.

I had a thought in jest. But then I started thinking about it, and now I don't know whether it's a good idea or not:

We need a single-payer legal system.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#114

Post by wrsh07 »

bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

Neither side here looks great. It's reasonable for someone to sue Gawker because of what they publish.

It's a bit scary to have someone attempt to take down a publishing company just because of a long-held grudge.

That's a template for private censorship by the rich.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#115

Post by kazagistar »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #105
kazagistar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprisingly easy to find some way that the law was broken... it's quite complex.

If your concern is that the legal system is too expensive, complex and dangerous then you are right. But there is nothing specially worrying about industrialists in this picture. The lawsuit suit that sideswipes you is far more likely to come from some crusading NGOs or from government agents trying to look tough.

There is something particularly worrying about the industrialists: they have the most resources.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#116

Post by ghaff »

adamlett wrote: post #107
bko wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course money matters in justice, as it matters with everything else. I can't imagine a system in which it doesn't matter. Perhaps if the Bar Association cartel was broken, lawyers would be less expensive, but there needs to be a kind of mechanism to allocate the judicial resources of the state.

You really can't imagine? What if for example the losing party in a law suit was automatically forced to pay the legal expenses of the winning party? That is actually how it works many places outside of the US. It's quite effective at discouraging frivolous lawsuits, and it means that a rich person can't bankrupt a someone by waging a legal attrition war.

It also means a non-rich person can't initiate a lawsuit because they'd be ruined if they lost. There are always uncertainties. Truly frivolous lawsuits tend to be dismissed pretty quickly in any case. But there are many reasonable cases where the outcome is nonetheless uncertain.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#117

Post by ambicapter »

kazagistar wrote: post #74
coredog64 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does have to buy the right litigation though. Thiel can't just sue the NYT out of existence because he gets it into his head to do so. He'd need to find a meritorious suit.

It's surprisingly easy to find some way that the law was broken... it's quite complex.

And then pour your money into a case that has more chances than not of being thrown out? More power to you.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#118

Post by drumdance »

madgar wrote: post #63
koolba wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author's beef isn't with Thiel using his money to help sue Gawker, but with him considering this to be philanthropic: >> The problem isn’t the way Thiel used his money. It’s his pretensions about it. But it is philanthropic, it just doesn't align with the author's idea of philanthropy.

Just like how it's philanthropic if I tape bum fights and make them freely available on YouTube.

Because getting a settlement for invasion of privacy is exactly the same?

False equivalence. Hulk Hogan may not be my favorite celebrity, but he deserves privacy more than Gawker deserves page views.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#119

Post by bakhy »

threatofrain wrote: post #28
bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

I don't think the problem is the fact that Peter Thiel tossed money in the direction of a lawsuit. The issue is that money matters in justice, and that Peter Thiel coincidentally put his money somewhere did not make this so. People are focusing shame on Peter Thiel today but that's the wrong place. There will always be rich people.

> There will always be rich people.

Peter Thiel is not an automaton. he is a human being. he bears responsibility for his actions. he might not be doing anything illegal, but it is perfectly justified to expect more of people than merely following the letter of the law, and as for the rest, anything goes! it is particularly justified to expect more from such influential people like him. he bears, if not legal, then moral responsibility. and after all, laws did not spring out of Zeus' head or something, we defined them, and situations like this, and discussions that they instigate, can change those laws.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#120

Post by skylan_q »

NathanKP wrote: post #111
skylan_q wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what's the connection, if any, between the author of the article and Gawker. I'm going to warn you: if you apply this pattern of thinking in all sorts of spheres of life you're going to lose a lot of friends.

I would rather lose friends than have untrustworthy influences in my life.

Same here. But what I'm implying is that we've been fooled into believing untrustworthy people as trustworthy, and identifying some of those people as untrustworthy will get you in hot water.
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