Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons • Hacker News Board

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#101

Post by jerguismi » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

samirillian wrote: post #100

bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

The fact that Gawker sucks is not a matter of debate, and it was not the topic of the article. The fact that you, without irony, see fit to compare Thiel's actions to those of the EFF proves the relevance of the article.

Do you have anything other than ad hominem argument? I fail to see myself as well the irony in the comparison, does it mean that I am stupid?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#102

Post by skylan_q » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

supergirl wrote: post #11

I wonder what's the connection, if any, between the author of the article and Gawker. If he's the same guy I found on Linkedin, he seems to be working for some kind of PR company for hire; also confirmed by the article footnote. I hope nobody takes this article only for what it is but also questions why it is.

I wonder what's the connection, if any, between the author of the article and Gawker. I'm going to warn you: if you apply this pattern of thinking in all sorts of spheres of life you're going to lose a lot of friends.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#103

Post by whamlastxmas » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #76

vintermann wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, I agree with that. But it's not the argument other people are making. People are saying this is an attack on journalism, and complaining that Thiel could have bankrupted Gawker just by attrition. Yeah, he could. But that was not in fact what he did. Gawker didn't lose by attrition, they lost a particular case they damn well deserved to lose. On the other hand, Thiel says Gawker's former victims have been forced…

Yes, Gawker deserved to lose that case. However, the Thiel involvement produced a vindictive and revenge-based strategy to try the case in such a way that Gawker couldn't use their insurance to pay the damages. So I don't think anybody's arguing that Gawker shouldn't have lost that case. But it's clear the motive here wasn't just punishment, it was to put Gawker out of business. And I used to hate Gawker because of a…

Like the site that sold that bought a stolen iPhone and bragged about it? If Gawker has any good content it's coincidence and not because they actively attempt to make it good.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#104

Post by CookieMon » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

Fascinating to watch Gawker's quarter-billion dollar public manipulation machine kick into gear.

Linked-In just emailed me to ensure I was aware of another one of these articles.

Thiel better hope he can manage a death blow, or that people become bored of the manufactured controversy - there's nothing Gawker doesn't stoop to, it's going to be vicious.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#105

Post by adrianratnapala » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

kazagistar wrote: post #74

coredog64 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does have to buy the right litigation though. Thiel can't just sue the NYT out of existence because he gets it into his head to do so. He'd need to find a meritorious suit.

It's surprisingly easy to find some way that the law was broken... it's quite complex.

If your concern is that the legal system is too expensive, complex and dangerous then you are right. But there is nothing specially worrying about industrialists in this picture. The lawsuit suit that sideswipes you is far more likely to come from some crusading NGOs or from government agents trying to look tough.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#106

Post by Redoubts » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #34

bko wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are more leaked sex tapes used for commercial purposes in the public interest?

Nobody pretended so - which is the whole point. Thiel could have given his money to a foundation that openly sponsors lawsuits for media victioms. That would haven been for the public good. Instead he chose to sponsor the lawsuit (and other lawsuits) against gawker in secret because he feels wronged by them with the intent of punishing them. And that's not in the public interest because it can be considered a form of…

> Thiel could have given his money to a foundation that openly sponsors lawsuits for media victioms.

Why is that better than shuttering a perpetrator and dancing on its grave?

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#107

Post by adamlett » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:40 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #69

threatofrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the problem is the fact that Peter Thiel tossed money in the direction of a lawsuit. The issue is that money matters in justice, and that Peter Thiel coincidentally put his money somewhere did not make this so. People are focusing shame on Peter Thiel today but that's the wrong place. There will always be rich people.

Of course money matters in justice, as it matters with everything else. I can't imagine a system in which it doesn't matter. Perhaps if the Bar Association cartel was broken, lawyers would be less expensive, but there needs to be a kind of mechanism to allocate the judicial resources of the state.

You really can't imagine? What if for example the losing party in a law suit was automatically forced to pay the legal expenses of the winning party? That is actually how it works many places outside of the US. It's quite effective at discouraging frivolous lawsuits, and it means that a rich person can't bankrupt a someone by waging a legal attrition war.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#108

Post by AlexandrB » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

Teeboo wrote: post #58

This is why I find myself firmly on Team Thiel. Gawker are using the historical precedent of freedom of the press in order to exploit the private lives of people, illegally, for profit. It is this corrupted pursuit of salacious gossip which led to the hacking of thousands and thousands of voicemails in the United Kingdom by News International. Not just celebrities but political figures and most chillingly, victims of…

> So yeh, I am Team Thiel until the press learn to wield their authority with respect and deference.

A good/free press does not and should not exhibit respect and deference to those in power. For a counter-example, see the Russian press, which does show a lot of respect and deference to the Russian ruling class.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#109

Post by tvanantwerp » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #87

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, do you also disagree when the ACLU backs a lawsuit? Or, say, when the EFF does?

Usually they don't do that anonymously.

As someone who has worked at 501(c)3 orgs that have launched public interest lawsuits, they are very likely receiving money to pay for those cases. And probably the majority of funding for a case comes from just one source--a source you likely don't know is funding it. Just because you see the ACLU or EFF doesn't mean you see where the money is ultimately coming from.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#110

Post by kelukelugames » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

byuu wrote: post #12

DeusExMachina wrote: post #7

For the record, Scott Adams also believes in the philanthropic nature of Thiel's actions: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145205211401/billionaire-brandi...

"I can't believe Scott Adams holds such a crazy opinion!" -- said nobody ever. I see no reason to take sides on this debacle. Both Nick Denton and Peter Thiel are guilty of absolutely awful behavior. Denton for outing people and publishing private videos; Thiel for Paypal (and its horrible practices) and using his wealth to bankroll personal vendettas. Both are happy to exploit others for their own personal gain. The…

I don't understand why people cite Dilbert. He is smart, but out of touch. He is also petty so it's not a surprise he supports vindictive behavior. [1]

Personally, I despise Gawker and disapprove of Thiel, but if I were rich and displeased then I would do the same. How many can claim otherwise? Even a small mount of money changes people.

[1]https://www.reddit.com/user/plannedchaos