Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese • Hacker News Board

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#41

Post by tristor » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:26 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #17

tristor wrote: post #15

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social media and online gaming. There is a term for this concept in Japan 'hikikomori', but it's just as true in the US. As someone who recently turned 30, yet has remained single most of my life despite my other successes, I see it very clearly. I grew up along with t…

>remained single most of my life despite my other successes I think the media has a role to play here too, the idea that you need romantic love in order to be successful or complete is a toxic one. Edit: a lot of replies to my comment are misinterpreting what I'm saying as "romance is a new idea invented by the media" when all I said is that it's possible to have a complete and successful life without romance.

I think that there's certainly some influence from the media on how people perceive how to obtain romantic relationships or how a romantic relationship works. That said, I personally don't consider it a requirement to find romance in order to be or feel successful. I do understand however that society in general somewhat views it that way, and I do feel like I am lacking in that department. For someone who is a bit of a completionist and has managed to do many other things in my life, my lack of romance is definitely somewhat troubling.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#42

Post by twoquestions » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:27 PM UTC

onecooldev24 wrote: post #13

Just saying, if prostitution was legal these lonely males would at least have some sort of pleasure.

Funny you mention that, there was a story a few weeks back (damned if I can find it now) where Japanese people pay someone to hang out with them for a while. Not prostitution, just hanging out at a bar or something!

One thing I found striking, was when they do the customary handshake (which signals a bit more familiarity in Japan than it does in the US), the clients literally sometimes cry as they've not touched another human being for years!

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#43

Post by onecooldev24 » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:29 PM UTC

greggman wrote: post #28

onecooldev24 wrote: post #13

Just saying, if prostitution was legal these lonely males would at least have some sort of pleasure.

In Japan prostitution is effectively legal. It's not legal to have penis in vagina sex but everything else is legal and you can bet that all of the places that claim they provide everything but that also provide that service as well. There's tons of "red light" districts as well as call up places. Even if you don't want sex Japan has a culture of hostess clubs and "snack" clubs. A hostess club is a club you pay to ha…

I agree, but in the US its still illegal. Having such services will only help, rather than cause further isolation.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#44

Post by baron816 » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:30 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #18

baron816 wrote: post #4

All these problems (as the author mentions) are closely related to lower rates of social connectedness. This is obviously a huge problem, probably the biggest problem in the advanced world, yet it seems to be mostly ignored. My company, Krewe ( https://www.gokrewe.com ), is addressing it by trying to make it really easy for people to make a new group of friends in their neighborhood and become connected with their lo…

Imagine an old depressed person who needs a daily dose of human empathy, just like everyone else, but can't give anything in return. Can your startup help such a person? I'm with the other commenter, this is a societal problem. To make even a small dent, we need an army of volunteers with calliagnosia or Williams syndrome, or something even more drastic...

I don't know for sure if it's possible to use an app to help those kinds of people, but I honestly believe that it doesn't take much more than a comfortable environment and convenient access to people to bring them together. I'm at least giving it a shot.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#45

Post by onecooldev24 » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:32 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #42

onecooldev24 wrote: post #13

Just saying, if prostitution was legal these lonely males would at least have some sort of pleasure.

Funny you mention that, there was a story a few weeks back (damned if I can find it now) where Japanese people pay someone to hang out with them for a while. Not prostitution, just hanging out at a bar or something! One thing I found striking, was when they do the customary handshake (which signals a bit more familiarity in Japan than it does in the US), the clients literally sometimes cry as they've not touched anot…

I am pretty sure its the same here in the US for quite a few people.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#46

Post by joncrocks » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:33 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #42

onecooldev24 wrote: post #13

Just saying, if prostitution was legal these lonely males would at least have some sort of pleasure.

Funny you mention that, there was a story a few weeks back (damned if I can find it now) where Japanese people pay someone to hang out with them for a while. Not prostitution, just hanging out at a bar or something! One thing I found striking, was when they do the customary handshake (which signals a bit more familiarity in Japan than it does in the US), the clients literally sometimes cry as they've not touched anot…

http://www.afar.com/magazine/the-incredibly-true-story-of-re...

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#47

Post by Morgawr » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:34 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #19

I interact with dozens of people daily. I tell jokes, I listen to their feelings, I applaud their conquests, I mourn their losses. On the internet. You think any of those people are going to miss me if I'm gone. Kinda sad, really.

As somebody who's had a dear internet friend die, let me tell you that yes, we'd miss you if you're gone!

I was (and still am) part of a tight community of people on IRC and one day we realized a guy in our group hadn't said anything for almost a month. He'd always been the quiet type of person who sometimes would go for a few days or even a week without saying anything, but it was really weird for us. These are all people I've been interacting with for years every day, we do know a lot about each other (although to varying degrees). We knew about this guy's name and some circumstantial social network presence, so we started to investigate and we eventually found out he had passed.

We all mourned him, and to this day still I regret the fact that it took us a month to realize he wasn't with us anymore (we initially thought he had gone on vacation, since it was summer).

In a few months it's going to be the 2nd anniversary of his death and we plan to write up something within our community to remember him, just like last year.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#48

Post by twoquestions » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:35 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #35

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

The problem with church is that it demands submission in exchange for community. Not only believe this way, but dress this way, eat this way, vote this way, and if you're in any way different you're as cut off as you would be if you stayed home, and if you're having hard times you must have done something to deserve it.

I'm from Ohio so it may be different up here, but that's my experience.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#49

Post by DanielBMarkham » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:37 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #34

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #19

I interact with dozens of people daily. I tell jokes, I listen to their feelings, I applaud their conquests, I mourn their losses. On the internet. You think any of those people are going to miss me if I'm gone. Kinda sad, really.

I would miss you! I like your Facebook updates and silly jokes and pictures of your family. I always read your stuff there. I know we don't get to see each other in person much, but know that there are people out there who care!

Ha! Thank you!

Didn't mean that to sound so gloomy, just wanted to point out that reading text from a person is also a form of isolation for both people.

There are a lot of people that I've interacted with over the years that I haven't heard from in a long time. Our only contact was email or texting. Their text number stopped working a long time ago, and emailing them results in no response at all.

This is not a situation where folks are angry at each other, just slowly drifting apart.

Are they alive or dead? Beats me.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#50

Post by ricksplat » Wed, Jun 01, 2016, 12:38 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #35

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

Sadly many have become disillusioned with the church and conflate the "Community" grass roots social aspect with the "Institutional" aspect. It is this latter aspect that has let so many down over the years. I'm not going to get into the whys and wherefores but in a great many social settings people feel betrayed by organisations - erstwhile held in the greatest of esteem and thus - trusted with some of the most sensitive activities of society. It's difficult as an enlightened individual to be lectured to about spirituality by somebody who is standing on a shaky moral platform themselves. Then there's the wilful ignorance of evident truths because they conflict with some (likely well meaning) prescription written by somebody in a far away place and a long time ago ...