Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

independent.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 173 posts

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#61

Post by blowski »

mootothemax wrote: post #58
cstross wrote: post #52

The inadmissible truth about corruption in the UK is that it's endemic. And not just money laundering; the very way governments (both Labour, Conservative, and Coalition) have pursued the business of privatization of state assets since 1979 is uniquely corrupt, on a massive scale. Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. Ask yourself why so many cabinet ministers…

>Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. While I agree with you, I find the bare-faced cheek of publicly-advertised "donor clubs" that promise access to the Prime Minister for a mere £50k/year absolutely sickening: https://www.conservatives.com/donate/Donor-Clubs

Blimey, that's a fascinating link to be so public and explicit. They boast about not being funded by Trade Unions, and then invite big business to donate £50K so they can have lunch with the PM to "defeat the rise of socialism".

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#62

Post by mootothemax »

blowski wrote: post #59
branchless wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Blair. Alistair Darling now on a major US bank. The UK establishment have perfected the art of making the immoral legal. They are patient and wait for their reward. Let's have another enquiry into it all! A "thorough" one that takes 5 years and costs millions only to find "systemic" issues with no individuals to blame. The UK's USP is "no time for financial crime".

There's nothing new about this, and nothing unique to the UK. Rich and powerful people tend to use their wealth and power to protect their wealth and power. And London has a lot of people with a lot of wealth and power. The banking system is where most of the world's wealth resides, and since the London banking system dominates most of the global financial system, a lot of dodgy dealings happen in London. If you move…

> not going to change human nature

I dislike this kind of argument. Sometimes you see it trotted out regarding crime, and that it's impossible to e.g. stop people killing or burgling or thieving in general.

Except - we're doing a pretty good job of reducing such crimes.

It's easy to write off pretty much well any undesirable action as being "human nature" and I implore you to reconsider.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#64

Post by blowski »

mootothemax wrote: post #62
blowski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing new about this, and nothing unique to the UK. Rich and powerful people tend to use their wealth and power to protect their wealth and power. And London has a lot of people with a lot of wealth and power. The banking system is where most of the world's wealth resides, and since the London banking system dominates most of the global financial system, a lot of dodgy dealings happen in London. If you move…

> not going to change human nature I dislike this kind of argument. Sometimes you see it trotted out regarding crime, and that it's impossible to e.g. stop people killing or burgling or thieving in general. Except - we're doing a pretty good job of reducing such crimes. It's easy to write off pretty much well any undesirable action as being "human nature" and I implore you to reconsider.

You missed out the first half of my sentence:

> David Cameron passing a few laws or conducting some kind of investigation is not going to change human nature

I agree that change is possible, but it's not going to come from the top. We the people need to push for that kind of change, but half the population is too busy repeating the establishment's line that "it's all the fault of immigrants".

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#65

Post by scribu »

blowski wrote: post #59
branchless wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Blair. Alistair Darling now on a major US bank. The UK establishment have perfected the art of making the immoral legal. They are patient and wait for their reward. Let's have another enquiry into it all! A "thorough" one that takes 5 years and costs millions only to find "systemic" issues with no individuals to blame. The UK's USP is "no time for financial crime".

There's nothing new about this, and nothing unique to the UK. Rich and powerful people tend to use their wealth and power to protect their wealth and power. And London has a lot of people with a lot of wealth and power. The banking system is where most of the world's wealth resides, and since the London banking system dominates most of the global financial system, a lot of dodgy dealings happen in London. If you move…

I agree that it's nothing new in a general sense, but the reason this is catching people's attention is because there is this lingering perception that there is less corruption in the UK (and in western Europe, in general) than in other places.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#66

Post by mootothemax »

blowski wrote: post #64
mootothemax wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not going to change human nature I dislike this kind of argument. Sometimes you see it trotted out regarding crime, and that it's impossible to e.g. stop people killing or burgling or thieving in general. Except - we're doing a pretty good job of reducing such crimes. It's easy to write off pretty much well any undesirable action as being "human nature" and I implore you to reconsider.

You missed out the first half of my sentence: > David Cameron passing a few laws or conducting some kind of investigation is not going to change human nature I agree that change is possible, but it's not going to come from the top. We the people need to push for that kind of change, but half the population is too busy repeating the establishment's line that "it's all the fault of immigrants".

> not going to change human nature

I'm doing a poor job of explaining myself; it's reasoning corruption as "human nature" that I have the bigger issue with.

(I do agree that few issues are ever going to be solved with politicians' soundbites!)

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#68

Post by blowski »

scribu wrote: post #65
blowski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing new about this, and nothing unique to the UK. Rich and powerful people tend to use their wealth and power to protect their wealth and power. And London has a lot of people with a lot of wealth and power. The banking system is where most of the world's wealth resides, and since the London banking system dominates most of the global financial system, a lot of dodgy dealings happen in London. If you move…

I agree that it's nothing new in a general sense, but the reason this is catching people's attention is because there is this lingering perception that there is less corruption in the UK (and in western Europe, in general) than in other places.

The corruption is of a different nature. It's difficult to compare the corruption of, say, Kim Jong Un with that of David Cameron. In North Korea, the corruption is explicit and the proceeds benefit a small group of people. In the UK, it's systemic and hard to identify who's actually doing the corruption, and who benefits, and how.

It's even harder to identify how to fix it. In North Korea, we could just say "wipe out the leaders and it will fix the problem". In the rich world, the cronies don't belong to any one family, country, or business. It's an international aristocracy consisting of 1000s of people.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#69

Post by blowski »

mootothemax wrote: post #66
blowski wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed out the first half of my sentence: > David Cameron passing a few laws or conducting some kind of investigation is not going to change human nature I agree that change is possible, but it's not going to come from the top. We the people need to push for that kind of change, but half the population is too busy repeating the establishment's line that "it's all the fault of immigrants".

> not going to change human nature I'm doing a poor job of explaining myself; it's reasoning corruption as "human nature" that I have the bigger issue with. (I do agree that few issues are ever going to be solved with politicians' soundbites!)

How do you define corruption? (Serious question, not snarky. I suspect we are on the same side of the fence here.)

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#70

Post by [deleted] »

blowski wrote: post #61
mootothemax wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. While I agree with you, I find the bare-faced cheek of publicly-advertised "donor clubs" that promise access to the Prime Minister for a mere £50k/year absolutely sickening: https://www.conservatives.com/donate/Donor-Clubs

Blimey, that's a fascinating link to be so public and explicit. They boast about not being funded by Trade Unions, and then invite big business to donate £50K so they can have lunch with the PM to "defeat the rise of socialism".

[deleted]
Post reply on HN