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Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

independent.co.uk

51–60 of 173 posts

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#51
post #11
post #2

It would be interesting if someone can reinforce this statement from a developer perspective.

What do you mean by a developer perspective? The corruption described is almost entirely contained within the area of high finance; it's not a very corrupt country from the perspective of the average John Bull. It is however quite deferential, which means that power and prestige let you get away with things.

The 'old boy' network that powers the country is not contained within high-finance. It is just tightly linked to through wealth management and lobbying.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#52
The inadmissible truth about corruption in the UK is that it's endemic. And not just money laundering; the very way governments (both Labour, Conservative, and Coalition) have pursued the business of privatization of state assets since 1979 is uniquely corrupt, on a massive scale.

Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. Ask yourself why so many cabinet ministers retire and end up on the boards of large conglomerates that specialise in bidding for government outsourcing contracts, or why so many long-term viable agencies of government (the Post Office, the Land Registry, the National Air Traffic Control System, the NHS ...) find themselves in need of privatization in the name of "efficiency". You can make any agency -- however potentially profitable -- fail if you run it into the ground through deliberate mismanagement, then show a rebound improvement when you sell it (or the service it provides) off to your golf-course cronies. And when you roll up to the banquet later, there's no evidential chain that can prove beyond reasonable doubt that what you did was grand theft.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compared to other nations, Britain's public trustees probably aren't so bad at serving the interests of the public. Dave & Co have probably been the worst offenders in recent recent years for selling public assets and companies they have nationalized to buddies of theirs at massively discounted prices, beginning with the RBS.

> nationalized to buddies of theirs at massively discounted prices, beginning with the RBS. What? I guess you have much evidence.

"the share price had been at 400p as recently as February, leading critics to blast the decision to sell now and question the relationship between banks and the Treasury"

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/595769/RBS-privatisati...

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reported that the City's contribution UK's national income is about £45bn or 3%, while London accounts for £334bn or 22% of the UK's. But to what extent is that 22% dependent on the indirect effect of the City? Britain will certainly be poorer and poor people will likely be even poorer. You want to see it removed regardless of consequences? Tax havens are the only defence against rapacious politicians who, unlike bus…

The London figure is always trotted out. All accounting is done through London. Also counting money like this doesn't count "wealth". A bunch of people creating new money as credit actually soaks up wealth as the rest of the UK is forced to exchange actual labour and products for fiat money against ever increasing land prices. Tax havens aren't bastions of freedom. Load of rubbish. They are allowing massive inequalit…

If a trafficker uses a mule to carry opium across the mountains, then sells the drugs and then sells the mule, is the new owner of the mule responsible for drug trafficking? Abramovich is Russian and the responsibility of the people running Russia. Likewise if the Maffia recycles money into legitimate assets in Italy then trades those assets in London, it's pretty rich for an Italian to try to pin that on London.

The article also talks about British overseas territories as though their laws are written in Westminster. They aren't. All these places make their own tax laws without any reference to the British government. Is this mentioned anywhere in the article? No, instead it's spun as though it's all a Westminster plot. Suppose Westminster did start imposing laws on these territories, would the Independent be applauding this as an example of responsible action or condemning it as an illegal and unconstitutional abrogation of Britain's responsibility to protect the independence of these territories? I think we have a right to know their opinion on that.

Of course Britain has a responsibility to fight crime and work with other governments to crack down on abuses, but we can't singlehandedly be the policemen for the whole world.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hold a position of trust (elected politician, policeman, bureaucrat, CEO, board member, employee representative, union boss), and you use the powers of that position to further some private interest rather than the interests of those you are set to serve, then you're corrupt. That's more or less Transparency International's definition, and I agree with it. But banks' trustees aren't the public. It's their depo…

> Compared to other nations, Britain's public trustees probably aren't so bad at serving the interests of the public. Dave & Co have probably been the worst offenders in recent recent years for selling public assets and companies they have nationalized to buddies of theirs at massively discounted prices, beginning with the RBS.

The Royal Mail would be a much better example of that; but then that happened on Vince Cable's watch (a part of then David's coalition). Of course the banks involved were accused of providing bad advice according to a committee of MPs; in particular undervalued property owned by Royal Mail.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#56
post #52

The inadmissible truth about corruption in the UK is that it's endemic. And not just money laundering; the very way governments (both Labour, Conservative, and Coalition) have pursued the business of privatization of state assets since 1979 is uniquely corrupt, on a massive scale. Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. Ask yourself why so many cabinet ministers…

Exactly. Blair. Alistair Darling now on a major US bank.

The UK establishment have perfected the art of making the immoral legal. They are patient and wait for their reward.

Let's have another enquiry into it all! A "thorough" one that takes 5 years and costs millions only to find "systemic" issues with no individuals to blame.

The UK's USP is "no time for financial crime".

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#57
post #29

Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

ajnin's law of adages : as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of someone using a popular adage to avoid argumenting approaches 1.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#58
post #52

The inadmissible truth about corruption in the UK is that it's endemic. And not just money laundering; the very way governments (both Labour, Conservative, and Coalition) have pursued the business of privatization of state assets since 1979 is uniquely corrupt, on a massive scale. Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. Ask yourself why so many cabinet ministers…

>Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand.

While I agree with you, I find the bare-faced cheek of publicly-advertised "donor clubs" that promise access to the Prime Minister for a mere £50k/year absolutely sickening:

https://www.conservatives.com/donate/Donor-Clubs

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#59
post #52

The inadmissible truth about corruption in the UK is that it's endemic. And not just money laundering; the very way governments (both Labour, Conservative, and Coalition) have pursued the business of privatization of state assets since 1979 is uniquely corrupt, on a massive scale. Hint: corruption isn't just about simple bribery and envelopes full of banknotes passing hand. Ask yourself why so many cabinet ministers…

Exactly. Blair. Alistair Darling now on a major US bank. The UK establishment have perfected the art of making the immoral legal. They are patient and wait for their reward. Let's have another enquiry into it all! A "thorough" one that takes 5 years and costs millions only to find "systemic" issues with no individuals to blame. The UK's USP is "no time for financial crime".

There's nothing new about this, and nothing unique to the UK. Rich and powerful people tend to use their wealth and power to protect their wealth and power. And London has a lot of people with a lot of wealth and power.

The banking system is where most of the world's wealth resides, and since the London banking system dominates most of the global financial system, a lot of dodgy dealings happen in London. If you move it to the jungles of deepest darkest Peru, then the deepest darkest jungles of Peru will become corrupt.

I'm as disappointed as anyone about the cesspool of immorality that is modern finance, but David Cameron passing a few laws or conducting some kind of investigation is not going to change human nature. These are essentially the same problems that the Ancient Romans and Greeks complained about.

Re: Britain is the most corrupt country in the world?

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hold a position of trust (elected politician, policeman, bureaucrat, CEO, board member, employee representative, union boss), and you use the powers of that position to further some private interest rather than the interests of those you are set to serve, then you're corrupt. That's more or less Transparency International's definition, and I agree with it. But banks' trustees aren't the public. It's their depo…

> Compared to other nations, Britain's public trustees probably aren't so bad at serving the interests of the public. Dave & Co have probably been the worst offenders in recent recent years for selling public assets and companies they have nationalized to buddies of theirs at massively discounted prices, beginning with the RBS.

"some of the City’s biggest investment banks – including Goldman Sachs and UBS – are charging the government a £1 fee for work that would normally cost tens of millions of pounds."

"Oliver Holbourn, head of market investments at UKFI, said some City firms had even offered to pay the government to work on its privatisations."

"The banks, however, eventually concluded that such arrangements could be an offence under the US foreign corrupt practices act."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/08/mps-warn-uk...

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