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The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

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Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#81
I worked in the user experience team at that one big American domain company (that's well known for mostly the wrong reasons.) Similar situation as the story: great coworkers, great pay, & great perks.

One of the products I was assigned was the interface for customers to configure those sites that are intended to monetize a domain with filler content meant to fool a visitor just enough to milk them for a few cents with seemingly legitimate articles/posts and an e-commerce feature that was essentially a storefront built entirely from affiliate links.

Unlike the individual in the story, it was immediately clear what my task was: make spamming the Internet as user-friendly as possible. Unfortunately there was no mental gymnastics I could do to reconcile that.

Especially since the second product I had was domain auctions, which alone is nothing more than virtual real estate, but together with the first product is the makings of a thinly-veiled means to skim money off the top of online purchases made by ignorant users AND to fool people into believing they could profit from otherwise idle domains (by first paying the company for the monetizing product first, of course.)

And a tiny fraction of our customers did make a good income with those 2 offerings but the significant majority would never net a dime.

Aside from the pay and perks, the only professional payoff was also having the company's support site in my charge. I was proud of the work I did on that and it was a feature of my portfolio. But it wasn't enough and I was too disillusioned and discouraged overall by the day to day work. It wasn't long before I let it get to me, my performance began to suffer, and I needed to get out of there. (Admittedly, the nature of the job wasn't well-suited to my strengths either so it was probably fortunate I lasted as long as I did...)

I was able to cash in quite nicely on the experience gained there with a good offer on an out-of-state position with a generous relocation package. So, no, it wasn't all bad and, like the person in the story, the coworkers were largely really great (some going to work for large, well-known tech companies) and though I value the experience overall, it revealed just how much money can be made if you're willing to profit from people's ignorance and greed, just by framing your product or service in a particular way.

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#82
post #63
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. However tax evasion and avoidance are often confused, for a public company not avoiding taxes would most certainly be an ethical violation.

While a public company answers to it's shareholders, it also has a responsibility to support the community it lives within, because often success can be directly attributed to where the company started. Aggressively avoiding taxes could very well be considered unethical by some parties.

So you are of course not taking any advantage of Pension tax reliefs in your 401K and IRA's ?

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#83
post #69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's little the law can do to prevent people from agreeing to such things. True, iff the customer was adequately informed about the offer in a way most people will understand. Contracts are not supposed to be a "gotcha" with extra terms buried in the fine print. If the installer only featured the "bait" and mentioned the adware behind a dark pattern UI or deep in the text of the contract, a judge could (and shou…

>a judge could (and should) void that part of the contract. There's a difference between voiding a contract that no longer obligates people, and voiding a contract to make actions taken under it illegal. I'm not sure there's good precedent for the latter. >There isn't a contract between the adware scammers and e.g. Target or Wikipedia. They're not touching Wikipedia, they're running on the user's computer and manipul…

Anny illegal terms in a contract are void.

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#85
post #72

I interviewed at 50onRed a few years ago soon after I left college. I went through the interview process, received an offer, and was on the verge of accepting. It was at this point I realized that I barely understood what the company actually did. I set up another in-person interview, except this time with the roles reversed. I asked them to walk me through their products and platforms so I could better understand wh…

I interviewed for a co-op position there and was turned down. I guess they saved me some time.

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#86
post #62

So what else is new. If you work at Facebook or Google you're benefiting directly from the similarly shady practices they used to grow on their way to being "pillars of tech" today. Do you remember when at LEAST 20% of Facebook's revenue came from Zynga? Like less than 5 years ago? Many speculated it was considerably higher, but Facebook never provided a full accounting (1). Or do you remember when Facebook literally…

One major difference is that Facebook and Google also provide value to their users. They do good and bad things. The company in the article did only bad things.

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a judge could (and should) void that part of the contract. There's a difference between voiding a contract that no longer obligates people, and voiding a contract to make actions taken under it illegal. I'm not sure there's good precedent for the latter. >There isn't a contract between the adware scammers and e.g. Target or Wikipedia. They're not touching Wikipedia, they're running on the user's computer and manipul…

Anny illegal terms in a contract are void.

The argument isn't that it's illegal, but that it wasn't properly agreed to.

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#88
post #62

So what else is new. If you work at Facebook or Google you're benefiting directly from the similarly shady practices they used to grow on their way to being "pillars of tech" today. Do you remember when at LEAST 20% of Facebook's revenue came from Zynga? Like less than 5 years ago? Many speculated it was considerably higher, but Facebook never provided a full accounting (1). Or do you remember when Facebook literally…

I had never heard about the (3) link and what Google was caught doing. Wow.

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#89
post #62

So what else is new. If you work at Facebook or Google you're benefiting directly from the similarly shady practices they used to grow on their way to being "pillars of tech" today. Do you remember when at LEAST 20% of Facebook's revenue came from Zynga? Like less than 5 years ago? Many speculated it was considerably higher, but Facebook never provided a full accounting (1). Or do you remember when Facebook literally…

Not sure how you compare 1) and 2) to ad-injections. Those are companies which purchase ad-space on websites which sell ad-space, solved by visiting those sites less. Not ad-ware installed to deliver ads to your browser, solved by switching browsers..? reformatting hard-drive..? replacing your computer..?

Re: The Perks Are Great, Just Don’t Ask What We Do

#90
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no case afaik, because they disclose everything in the original agreement when you install their software. Unethical, sure, but there's little the law can do to prevent people from agreeing to such things. Maybe a requirement for certain disclosures to be made more prominent (like for cigarettes)?

It would be an interesting case if someone tried this with the venerable TV industry: rent/borrow/buy our special HDMI cable/tuner, let us replace your ads, and we'll pay half your cable bill if you let us put our ads up instead. Methinks the broadcasters would pounce down like a ton of bricks and their lawyers would use every loose corner of the law to bury you perpetually `a la Aereo.`

Is this replacing ads, or just adding more?

Even if it is replacing ads, to argue that it's illegal seems to require saying that ad blocking is illegal (adblock plus has been sued for this, but so far not successfully).

Also https://brave.com/ uses basically the same technique.

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