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The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

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Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#41

Post by vox_mollis »

xenophonf wrote: post #31
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the '73 embargo vividly. Rationing was based on license plate, even or odd. My parent's two autos were one of each. Of course, a station wagon and pickup truck. So my dad would get up about 4:30, put the snub-nosed .38 under the seat, and go get in line. Those who waited until the station opened were too late. Stations had big signs up if they had no gas. Gas was always pumped by the attendant. When you go…

I don't understand why Nixon and subsequent administrations didn't push _hard_ for total energy independence after that, as in moonshot-levels of investment into alternative energy (whether alternative sources of oil or research into nuclear/renewables).

Carter tried, and he learned the very valuable lesson that you NEVER level with your electorate. Always feed them happy, optimistic fantasies or your career is over.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#42

Post by dkksfj »

s_q_b wrote: post #28
arethuza wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone thinks the UK doesn't have an agenda in the Middle East separate to that of the US then you might want to consider the Al-Yamamah arms deal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal NB - of course the UK does a lot that aligns with US interests, but they aren't identical.

Yes, the United States and Great Britain have similar, but not identical interests in the Middle East. Their intelligence operatives are almost preternaturally good (or at least seem that way due to their extremely precise knowledge of the Middle East.) And unlike American intelligence officers, they have a much smaller risk of "going native." American officers are rotated every few years to prevent this effect, whil…

im not surprised.

every (out of 10 or so) brit ive met overseas and had a good chat with out over the last 3 years of being an expat has been a neurotic and/or belligerent asshole whereas most of the americans (out of 20) were able to communicate and assimilate with the local culture.

its become such a pattern that i wont even speak english to a person with a british accent anymore. quite a few of them are just looking for physical fights. so strange.

and thats the end of my n=30 overseas brits and americans anecdote.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#43

Post by Eric_WVGG »

jonstokes wrote: post #32
s_q_b wrote: post #9

You can see from their reported figures that their U.S. treasury holdings are far too low for a sensible national portfolio. It's a pretty glaring hole, and you know that the money is going somewhere off the balance sheets. The question has always been how much U.S. debt exactly the Saudi's hold. This is an interesting historical anecdote, but it doesn't provide any information about the size of the debt, other than…

A few years ago I read a good book on the collapse of the USSR (can't remember the title, too lazy to go back and find it right now). One of the major factors that the author identified was glasnost ("transparency"), which I'm old enough to remember being talked about on the news at the time. Basically, his thesis was that it was the transparency, after a generation of buildup of really nasty official secrets, that u…

I was a kid at the time and mostly heard “glasnost” in the context of “open-ness”, mostly regarding opening the culture and the borders and a McDonald’s in Red Square. Interesting to learn that the double-meaning translates so, uh, clearly.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#44

Post by zeeshanm »

advertising wrote: post #36

There's a book called confessions of an economic hit man - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit... Essentially U.S. helps impoverished nations with infrastructure and other aid, but saddles them with debt in order to control them politically or otherwise. The interesting part was when it came to Saudi Arabia, which had so much money it didn't need to take on debt to develop their infrastructur…

There is a new edition of the book mentioned above if anyone's interested: "The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#45

Post by snowwrestler »

jonstokes wrote: post #32
s_q_b wrote: post #9

You can see from their reported figures that their U.S. treasury holdings are far too low for a sensible national portfolio. It's a pretty glaring hole, and you know that the money is going somewhere off the balance sheets. The question has always been how much U.S. debt exactly the Saudi's hold. This is an interesting historical anecdote, but it doesn't provide any information about the size of the debt, other than…

A few years ago I read a good book on the collapse of the USSR (can't remember the title, too lazy to go back and find it right now). One of the major factors that the author identified was glasnost ("transparency"), which I'm old enough to remember being talked about on the news at the time. Basically, his thesis was that it was the transparency, after a generation of buildup of really nasty official secrets, that u…

The difference between the USSR in the 1990s and the U.S. today is that the U.S. has cultural and governmental norms that accept and manage change.

I know that's not necessarily going to be universally accepted here on HN, where it's somewhat popular to assert that all politicians are the same, all the strings are pulled by a small group of global elites, etc.

We have contentious national elections frequently, and tolerate a high level of conflict and dissent in public discourse. This is not to say that everything is objective and equitable--it's not. But each viewpoint has a lot more leeway to pursue its own goals than in the USSR in the 1990s.

In terms of secret crazy stuff that turned out to be true, that does happen. The Snowden leaks are a recent example.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#46

Post by pjc50 »

s_q_b wrote: post #28
arethuza wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone thinks the UK doesn't have an agenda in the Middle East separate to that of the US then you might want to consider the Al-Yamamah arms deal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal NB - of course the UK does a lot that aligns with US interests, but they aren't identical.

Yes, the United States and Great Britain have similar, but not identical interests in the Middle East. Their intelligence operatives are almost preternaturally good (or at least seem that way due to their extremely precise knowledge of the Middle East.) And unlike American intelligence officers, they have a much smaller risk of "going native." American officers are rotated every few years to prevent this effect, whil…

Of course the US and UK have different interests. The UK has as a very high priority abstract objective the question of "how can we exist as something other than a US client state?" Given the other priority of "how can we avoid getting on the wrong side of the US as at Suez?" this often produces incoherent policy: the ""independent"" nuclear deterrent that may not be, the aircraft carrier with no aircraft.

Al-Yamamah is simply about money. The arms industry is corrupt everywhere because such large amounts of money are involved. It's a real scandal and a tragedy that this should override the rule of law in the UK, but there we go. The UK is rather bad at state accountability; the central secret state is too big. The US of course prefers to federalise its unaccountability and distribute the abuse of power to random local police departments.

I'm curious as to why you think Americans are far more likely to "go native" than Brits? Is this perhaps a question of people "going native" in the other direction, like the Jordanian Royal family? Something about your writing suggests you're an "insider" of some sort.

(This feels odd to write, as a UK critic of UK domestic intelligence defending UK foreign intelligence, but hey)

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#47

Post by adventured »

advertising wrote: post #36

There's a book called confessions of an economic hit man - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit... Essentially U.S. helps impoverished nations with infrastructure and other aid, but saddles them with debt in order to control them politically or otherwise. The interesting part was when it came to Saudi Arabia, which had so much money it didn't need to take on debt to develop their infrastructur…

> The interesting part was when it came to Saudi Arabia, which had so much money it didn't need to take on debt to develop their infrastructure.

That's not entirely accurate. Saudi Arabia was extraordinarily poor prior to Standard Oil of California's oil finds there. US companies financed most of Saudi Arabia's initial oil infrastructure build out, including the technology that made it all possible in the first place.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#48

Post by [deleted] »

ericHosick wrote: post #38
rwmj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have fiat currency than gold, because that would save me the time and hassle of selling the gold and getting something I can actually spend.

> I'd rather have fiat currency than gold, because that would save me the time and hassle of selling the gold and getting something I can actually spend. Isn't currency backed by commodities considered something other than fiat currency?

[deleted]

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#49

Post by adventured »

jonstokes wrote: post #32
s_q_b wrote: post #9

You can see from their reported figures that their U.S. treasury holdings are far too low for a sensible national portfolio. It's a pretty glaring hole, and you know that the money is going somewhere off the balance sheets. The question has always been how much U.S. debt exactly the Saudi's hold. This is an interesting historical anecdote, but it doesn't provide any information about the size of the debt, other than…

A few years ago I read a good book on the collapse of the USSR (can't remember the title, too lazy to go back and find it right now). One of the major factors that the author identified was glasnost ("transparency"), which I'm old enough to remember being talked about on the news at the time. Basically, his thesis was that it was the transparency, after a generation of buildup of really nasty official secrets, that u…

> What if a lot of crazy stuff that many people suspect has gone on actually turns out to be true, or what if it's even worse than some of the tinfoil hatters think, and we suddenly start finding out about it all.

What if that premise is mostly or entirely wrong. It's absurd, and entirely empty speculation at best. Extreme edge case scenarios very rarely actually occur. Most of the world has a very large vested interest in the US remaining exactly where it is: most of the world has gotten radically wealthier and more free during the reign of the US superpower, global poverty and inequality has plunged rapidly during that time.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#50

Post by MOARDONGZPLZ »

zeeshanm wrote: post #44
advertising wrote: post #36

There's a book called confessions of an economic hit man - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit... Essentially U.S. helps impoverished nations with infrastructure and other aid, but saddles them with debt in order to control them politically or otherwise. The interesting part was when it came to Saudi Arabia, which had so much money it didn't need to take on debt to develop their infrastructur…

There is a new edition of the book mentioned above if anyone's interested: "The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

Thanks for the heads up. I read the original in college and it was very interesting, although I thought it was a bit embellished.

http://www.amazon.com/New-Confessions-Economic-Hit-Man/dp/16...

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