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The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

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Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#21

Post by knodi123 »

wahsd wrote: post #19

We really should simply cancel all debt and confiscate all assets owned by Saudi Arabia and any other muslim country as consequence for 9/11 and all the other terrorist attacks against the west hat muslims are organizing, supporting, and funding in order to undermine, fracture, and weaken the west with the help of self-loathing and self-destructive liberals. What are they going to do about it. Will Europeans all the…

> muslims are voluntarily part of a vile organization founded by vile savages

I was on board with your rant until this point, but I refuse to wave a pitchfork around and scream for blood with someone who doesn't even own a thesaurus.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#22

Post by apaprocki »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #10
lr4444lr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks - makes much more sense. I haven't had my coffee yet. According to the Dept. of Energy that'd be about 7 gallons. ( http://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-915-march-7-2016-averag... ) Not sure what typical passenger car engine efficiency was in those days, though.

I remember the '73 embargo vividly. Rationing was based on license plate, even or odd. My parent's two autos were one of each. Of course, a station wagon and pickup truck. So my dad would get up about 4:30, put the snub-nosed .38 under the seat, and go get in line. Those who waited until the station opened were too late. Stations had big signs up if they had no gas. Gas was always pumped by the attendant. When you go…

More recently, the even/odd license plate scheme was put in place in NYC in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy.[1] Local refineries were shut down and every station ran out of gas eventually. There were far away deliveries being trucked in but they were gobbled up almost immediately. People were waiting in multi-hour lines to get gas from the handful of stations that got a shipment in.

[1]: http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2012b/pr406-12-static.html

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#23

Post by s_q_b »

eternalban wrote: post #7

Bitter Lake [1] connects the Saudi windfall with the rise of global bankers as a power. Showdown at Doha [2] looks into the growing discomfort of US with rise of Iran and the subsequent strategic deal with SA which has lead us directly to the current mess. The role of the Brits (always busy busy in the shadows) is well worth looking into. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_%28film%29 [2]: http://masoudbeh…

the Brits (always busy busy in the shadows) is well worth looking into.

Sigh, the British are constantly furthering their own agenda in the Middle East. Their HUMINT network is just much better than anyone else's in the region, and their active intelligence work is informed by a much more nuanced view of that portion of the world.

Americans like to do things from a distance, if they possibly can. Airstrikes, cyberattacks, drones, all involve minimal risk of casualties. The Brits have been on the ground, building their network, for far longer than the Americans.

If only they'd share more of the fruits of their labor. It's been a quarter millennium, and British intelligence still looks down their nose at the Americans, treating them like a rebellious problem child.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#24

Post by rwmj »

aedron wrote: post #17

The massive issuance of U.S. Dollar debt to Saudi Arabia, as a result of the deal mentioned in the OP, coincided perfectly with the abolition of the gold standard (the dollar being linked to physical gold reserves) [1]. So right from the start, the U.S. was purchasing oil with pieces of paper with no guaranteed value of any sort. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock

I'd rather have fiat currency than gold, because that would save me the time and hassle of selling the gold and getting something I can actually spend.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#25

Post by jokoon »

Sophistifunk wrote: post #18
s_q_b wrote: post #9

You can see from their reported figures that their U.S. treasury holdings are far too low for a sensible national portfolio. It's a pretty glaring hole, and you know that the money is going somewhere off the balance sheets. The question has always been how much U.S. debt exactly the Saudi's hold. This is an interesting historical anecdote, but it doesn't provide any information about the size of the debt, other than…

I think it's much more likely that the result will be an un-deniable public insistence on the right to sue the royal family. And if the Sauds can be sued for 9/11, the US can be sued for all the drone strikes and the like.

Mmmmh there is a difference between a family of individuals and a country that executed drone strikes. Suing a government is harder.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#26

Post by Spooky23 »

s_q_b wrote: post #9

You can see from their reported figures that their U.S. treasury holdings are far too low for a sensible national portfolio. It's a pretty glaring hole, and you know that the money is going somewhere off the balance sheets. The question has always been how much U.S. debt exactly the Saudi's hold. This is an interesting historical anecdote, but it doesn't provide any information about the size of the debt, other than…

It also adds an additional dimension as to the drama associated with the bullshit "debt ceiling" debates that come up from time to time, usually pushed by the House republicans.

How much of that nonsense is actually the House looking to influence foreign policy decisions? Based on the article, it sounds like this "add-on" facility is the go-to path for central banks to move money around.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#27

Post by arethuza »

s_q_b wrote: post #23
eternalban wrote: post #7

Bitter Lake [1] connects the Saudi windfall with the rise of global bankers as a power. Showdown at Doha [2] looks into the growing discomfort of US with rise of Iran and the subsequent strategic deal with SA which has lead us directly to the current mess. The role of the Brits (always busy busy in the shadows) is well worth looking into. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_%28film%29 [2]: http://masoudbeh…

the Brits (always busy busy in the shadows) is well worth looking into. Sigh , the British are constantly furthering their own agenda in the Middle East. Their HUMINT network is just much better than anyone else's in the region, and their active intelligence work is informed by a much more nuanced view of that portion of the world. Americans like to do things from a distance, if they possibly can. Airstrikes, cyberat…

If anyone thinks the UK doesn't have an agenda in the Middle East separate to that of the US then you might want to consider the Al-Yamamah arms deal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal

NB - of course the UK does a lot that aligns with US interests, but they aren't identical.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#28

Post by s_q_b »

arethuza wrote: post #27
s_q_b wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the Brits (always busy busy in the shadows) is well worth looking into. Sigh , the British are constantly furthering their own agenda in the Middle East. Their HUMINT network is just much better than anyone else's in the region, and their active intelligence work is informed by a much more nuanced view of that portion of the world. Americans like to do things from a distance, if they possibly can. Airstrikes, cyberat…

If anyone thinks the UK doesn't have an agenda in the Middle East separate to that of the US then you might want to consider the Al-Yamamah arms deal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yamamah_arms_deal NB - of course the UK does a lot that aligns with US interests, but they aren't identical.

Yes, the United States and Great Britain have similar, but not identical interests in the Middle East.

Their intelligence operatives are almost preternaturally good (or at least seem that way due to their extremely precise knowledge of the Middle East.) And unlike American intelligence officers, they have a much smaller risk of "going native." American officers are rotated every few years to prevent this effect, while the Brits can keep people in place for decades without the same worry.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#29

Post by maze-le »

knodi123 wrote: post #20
dforrestwilson1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we should be demanding heads on pikes. This has very real implications for Hillary Clinton's election chances as well. The Clintons have been supporters of the Saudis for some time now and have accepted Saudi government money through the Clinton Foundation. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/contributors?category=%241... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/hillary-clinton-... There is no reason the U.S…

> There is no reason the U.S. should be allies with the House of Saud. We have almost no aligned interests and very different views on human rights and Wahhabism. Well, in isolation, sure. But in the broader geopolitical sense, it really does make sense to have at least one close ally in that region.

> But in the broader geopolitical sense, it really does make sense to have at least one close ally in that region.

What about Israel, Turkey, Egypt?

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#30

Post by s_q_b »

jokoon wrote: post #25
Sophistifunk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's much more likely that the result will be an un-deniable public insistence on the right to sue the royal family. And if the Sauds can be sued for 9/11, the US can be sued for all the drone strikes and the like.

Mmmmh there is a difference between a family of individuals and a country that executed drone strikes. Suing a government is harder.

Well, unless that family is the royal family of a nation. Sovereign immunity, the right of nations not to be sued, is actually based upon the Monarch's right not be sued.

In reality, the judgements of United States' courts could actually be enforced against the Saudis, by seizing their assets abroad. Any judgement by a Saudi court against the United States government is likely to be entirely unenforceable.

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