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Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

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Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#21

Post by pandaman »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #19
kbenson wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of me thinks we should drop the pretext of a "Gaming Industry" and just start calling it the "Murder Simulation Industry". You might as well call the film industry the "Murder Voyeur Industry". Any complaint you have about the games industry can largely be applied towards the film industry, and the same arguments you can use in defense of the film industry apply as well. The market for people with free time to…

The percentage of AAA games about murder is close to 100%. The same is not true about AAA movies, I doubt it's even 50%.

How close exactly? Many big AAA games are sports: Madden, The Show, PES, NBA, Gran Tourismo, Formula 1 etc. etc. Nintendo first party games are also AAA - is Mario Galaxy also about murder? Pokemon, perhaps? Splatoon?

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#22

Post by kirrent »

bmer wrote: post #20
erikpukinskis wrote: post #14

I love that none of these involve shooting people. I love video games, but I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone enjoys being a gamer these days... I watch a lot of game trailers, reviews, and gameplay, and very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures. I am often like "wow, that looks like a cool world!" but then I never buy the game because the gameplay is just shooting peo…

I play video games that involve murder, and I wish I could disagree with you, but damn it...I can't. I happen to agree with everything you said. I like to play a top-down 2D space RPG, which has lasers, missiles, and all of that. I want to find a way to justify that playing that game does not make a bad person. Is this possible? Also, how would one make sense of enjoying movies like Star Wars?

Yes, of course it's possible. Something like FTL is a fun, engaging game which makes use of conflict as a game mechanic and driving force. The game wouldn't make sense without it.

You might as well bemoan the 'violence' of chess with its military units and combat. Video games can be enhanced through the use of violence just as books, film, and board games can. You're not a bad person for enjoying it. You're just a person.

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#23

Post by ntumlin »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #14

I love that none of these involve shooting people. I love video games, but I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone enjoys being a gamer these days... I watch a lot of game trailers, reviews, and gameplay, and very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures. I am often like "wow, that looks like a cool world!" but then I never buy the game because the gameplay is just shooting peo…

So? I have absolutely zero ethical qualms about eating meat, much less about "killing" virtual characters. In the case of the latter, it's absurd to compare playing a videogame where nobody is hurt in any way, shape, or form, to actual murder.

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#24

Post by bmer »

kirrent wrote: post #22
bmer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I play video games that involve murder, and I wish I could disagree with you, but damn it...I can't. I happen to agree with everything you said. I like to play a top-down 2D space RPG, which has lasers, missiles, and all of that. I want to find a way to justify that playing that game does not make a bad person. Is this possible? Also, how would one make sense of enjoying movies like Star Wars?

Yes, of course it's possible. Something like FTL is a fun, engaging game which makes use of conflict as a game mechanic and driving force. The game wouldn't make sense without it. You might as well bemoan the 'violence' of chess with its military units and combat. Video games can be enhanced through the use of violence just as books, film, and board games can. You're not a bad person for enjoying it. You're just a pe…

But why bother using conflict as a driving force? Is it simply because we are used to conflict being a driving force in our entertainment for millennia (e.g. chess being set in a military environment, even though it could be completely abstracted away from it)?

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#25

Post by imgabe »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #14

I love that none of these involve shooting people. I love video games, but I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone enjoys being a gamer these days... I watch a lot of game trailers, reviews, and gameplay, and very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures. I am often like "wow, that looks like a cool world!" but then I never buy the game because the gameplay is just shooting peo…

Most people are able to tell the difference between fake murder in a video game and real life.

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#26

Post by arsenide »

jackson_1 wrote: post #2

This is a great list, I've tried to order them into what I think would be easiest to hardest, so you can work through all of them whilst improving your skills! If you think the list could be ordered better let me know and I'll edit it! 1:Pong 2:Minefield 3:Tic-tac-toe 4:Memory Puzzle 5:Simon 6:Sliding Puzzle 7:Duck Hunt 8:Yahtzee 9:Maze 10:Typespeed 11:Lunar Lander 12:Nibbles 13:Katamari Damacy 14:Tron 15:Asteroids 1…

Go is likely harder than chess: counting points (with dame not all filled), handling dead groups, handling ko, and offering support for superko seems much more challenging than handling an 8x8 board of pieces with fixed move patterns.

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#28

Post by PhasmaFelis »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #14

I love that none of these involve shooting people. I love video games, but I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone enjoys being a gamer these days... I watch a lot of game trailers, reviews, and gameplay, and very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures. I am often like "wow, that looks like a cool world!" but then I never buy the game because the gameplay is just shooting peo…

> I watch a lot of game trailers, reviews, and gameplay, and very close to 100% of the games being made seem to be about murdering other creatures.

I think you're looking at a very narrow subset of available games. The nine "Popular New Releases" on the Steam front page right now are:

  * A point-and-click adventure about an empathic healer (Resette's Prescription)
  * A 4X strategy game where violence, diplomacy, and economics are all useful tools (Planar Conquest)
  * A violent, profane combat game (Apocalypse: Party's Over)
  * A game of bloodless slapstick violence where no one ever dies (Goat Simulator: Waste of Space)
  * A racing game (Table Top Racing: World Tour)
  * An idle game where abstracted combat happens offscreen (Idling to Rule the Gods)
  * A political simulator where violence is one option among several (Power & Revolution)
  * A shooting game (The Big Elk)
  * A transportation simulator (Simutrans)
So that's two games out of nine that are mainly about killing, and another two out of nine that are completely peaceful. The AAA chart-toppers tend towards combat or sports, but there are literally thousands of games released every year that are either completely non-violent or not focused on violence.

And, for the record, it's pretty damn insulting to imply that liking violent games makes me a violent person. And there isn't any land on earth that wasn't "taken via murder" at some point. You don't get to be smug because your birthplace was last conquered 500 years ago instead of 200.

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#29

Post by kirrent »

bmer wrote: post #24
kirrent wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course it's possible. Something like FTL is a fun, engaging game which makes use of conflict as a game mechanic and driving force. The game wouldn't make sense without it. You might as well bemoan the 'violence' of chess with its military units and combat. Video games can be enhanced through the use of violence just as books, film, and board games can. You're not a bad person for enjoying it. You're just a pe…

But why bother using conflict as a driving force? Is it simply because we are used to conflict being a driving force in our entertainment for millennia (e.g. chess being set in a military environment, even though it could be completely abstracted away from it)?

Why do I love the aesthetic of a Tarantino film? Because it's fun. Violence and catharsis are powerful tools that can enhance a bit of media when used correctly. They can be critical and make you feel negative emotions a la Spec Ops: the line, they can switch off your critical faculties and let you have mindless fun like Saints Row, or they can exist in a more abstract and stylised form like in FTL.

Sure, all of these examples could be remade using other techniques to drive them forward but I can't imagine them being as good that way. It's not only because we're used to conflict being a driving force in entertainment. It's also because it's such an effective driving force for so many types of entertainment. For me, no other justification is needed for artist's to make an artistic choice. Video games with murder are not only fun.

Re: Ideas for Game Clones to Code (2012)

#30

Post by erikpukinskis »

pandaman wrote: post #21
erikpukinskis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage of AAA games about murder is close to 100%. The same is not true about AAA movies, I doubt it's even 50%.

How close exactly? Many big AAA games are sports: Madden, The Show, PES, NBA, Gran Tourismo, Formula 1 etc. etc. Nintendo first party games are also AAA - is Mario Galaxy also about murder? Pokemon, perhaps? Splatoon?

Hm. I had forgotten about sports games. Sports, murder, and cars.

I think I'm just not a very manly man, so I don't like games.

Either way, you convinced me. I spoke too broadly and too casually. I won't bring up the murder thing again unless I can think of a more specific thesis.

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