Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like when windows extended Java then started adding incompatibile methods to the windows Java extension that would be on all windows computers? Or maybe when office used a hidden format to store files so no one could share files without buying a license? They were not great times at all...
> Like when windows extended Java then started adding incompatibile methods Visual J++ was a very usable Java. Had Sun failed to sue it out of existence, the world would have had a Java with a good UI stack developers actually used, an IDE that was not unusably slow and buggy, AND almost all packages built for Sun's Java would drop right in without problems. Visual J++ would have created the same effect on the use of…
Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
401–409 of 409 posts
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like when windows extended Java then started adding incompatibile methods Visual J++ was a very usable Java. Had Sun failed to sue it out of existence, the world would have had a Java with a good UI stack developers actually used, an IDE that was not unusably slow and buggy, AND almost all packages built for Sun's Java would drop right in without problems. Visual J++ would have created the same effect on the use of…
Oh because what microsoft did with the web standards with IE5 and IE6 did so much for the web world - it only took what, 10 years to undo the damage? Think if they corrupted early Java in the same way? C# would not exist, but Java would likely be a steaming pile of crap.
This is what it took to make interactive Java successful in Android: Subtract cross-platformness, add a runtime designed for a specific OS architecture, add a nice UI stack, and add modularity to apps that makes component lifecycle useful to running apps efficiently. Among other mods. Android "corrupted" the fuck out of Java which was absolutely nowhere as a language for interactive software.
Oracle should have gotten on the bandwagon.
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
People complain about the special interests, but some fail to realize that the major backers of Extreme Copyright (TM) are a special interest that we created. We, the US public, out of the goodness of our hearts and wanting to foster art, gave up our right to "repeat what we heard" (copying, when what you hear is digital) in return for incentives to create art. And then bam ; decades later the incentives are the de f…
> Fewer Oracles. Fewer Microsofts. Fewer Steve Jobs. Was it so bad back when you could just buy software for money? Before business models built on eyeballs and data mining instead of copyright?
Ok. Shame on me. You win. Checkmate.
But you won't fool me twice. No more support for "innovation" and "intellectual property" of any kind.
You can still ask me to pay for it, but you won't have the copyright industry stick to swing at me if I decide I'd rather get it from an unsupported source because your version only comes with digital restrictions.
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
"We, the US public, out of the goodness of our hearts and wanting to foster art" I was not part of that, and neither was I part of some minority complaining while the majority did this. I don't think this ever happened. Just because there's a pretense of democracy doesn't mean the general public is actually to blame for everything.
I also had to scratch my head at that, despite an otherwise nicely written comment. It's not like copyright law is something Presidential candidates run on. I think the author is overstating his case with regards to public perceptions. The first problem with public perceptions is, when laws are forged in the court room (or codified in treaties), they're essentially happening removed from public scrutiny. Not everyone…
And when the public votes with there money (the Montgomery bus boycott) and back it up at the ballot box, you could actually effect change.
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Likewise, the quality of work produced with the economic incentive of copyright tends to be better, often much better, than what is produced based on other funding models or a voluntary basis... (Some people may disagree, but I consider this point so obvious by now that it's rarely worth engaging on.) Sorry you find this tiresome. The history of popular and culturally relevant music can be seen as basically a histo…
Financial incentives don't encourage great art, they only incentivize commercial art. There are overlaps, but we can't pretend those are both the same thing. I don't entirely agree. Appreciation of art is subjective by nature, but the way we usually quantify value in our society is financial. A work that is popular will be more financially successful. A work that does not have such broad appeal but which is worth a g…
While I think you make a fair prima facie case that financial value could track merit in art, as it does so in so many other domains, I would caution that 'weirdness' in the market for art could easily distort this. ('Weirdness' being the proper technical term, if I recall correctly.)
There are lots of reasons art markets are weird, imperfect substitutes, monopolies, winner-take-all dynamics. But I think the biggest factor here is that consumption of truly great art requires enormous search costs.
You can't be certain if you'll love a work unless you experience it, and no one has time to experience more than a miniscule fraction of all the art humanity produces any given day.
The impact is that producers and distributors can successfully make works of minimally acceptable quality, but then market the hell out of them to drown out other recommendations during our search for new great works.
That's why, while yes, GoT has been great, we are coming off nearly a decade dominated by reality TV with no rewatchability. Commercial art has demonstrated the capacity for perfectly fine returns with either model.
Meanwhile, I'm more frequently finding that some of my favorite works have been released for free online: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, John Dies at the End, The Martian, How We Got Here, or Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.
This shouldn't be too surprising, the idea that great works are possible without strong copyrights. Shakespeare wrote at a time where copyright protections did not apply to written plays, and you might find, according to critical acclaim, test of time, or market measures that Shakespeare has produced a few superlative plays.
If we look to the median, based on my admittedly informal hunch from working a few summers at bookstores, we have to start looking at things like middle of the road trashy romance novels, which I suspect will be a pretty comparable to median fan fiction (unchecked grammatical errors and all - for a particularly memorable, but not uncharacteristic example: https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2011/sep/12/shif... ).
So we could go a few rounds where you note great commercial works and terrible amateur works, and I cite the opposite, but I think we both know that could continue forever with no resolution.
What we really need is some kind of impossible study that has amateurs and professionals performing the same works, and then some independent quality rating. Oh, and we also need to compare works with and without copyright protections.
Fortunately there is a test case for this, thanks to how many different versions will emerge of various audiobooks. Buccafusco & Heald used mechanical turk in an interesting way as well, really interesting study design:
http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Do-Bad-Things...
Now, studio time and famous actors can make audiobooks incredibly expensive to produce. Production values could range from "microphone in a closet" to extremely high budget.
Even so, the study found no appreciable difference in quality for professional and amateur works, or for works with or without copyright monopolies preventing competition.
Despite all the sound and fury, I suspect you and I are closer than it might appear. I agree the utilitarian works may need help with compensation (I might quibble that copyright is an imperfect vehicle there, but sure). And copyright probably led to some very good stuff that we wouldn't have otherwise.
I really just feel like there are enough counterexamples and indications like the study above to make the value of strong copyrights an open question, I was reacting far more to your apparent certainty than to the position itself.
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also had to scratch my head at that, despite an otherwise nicely written comment. It's not like copyright law is something Presidential candidates run on. I think the author is overstating his case with regards to public perceptions. The first problem with public perceptions is, when laws are forged in the court room (or codified in treaties), they're essentially happening removed from public scrutiny. Not everyone…
Fair enough. My point is only that this is a consensual system at its root. And when the public votes with there money (the Montgomery bus boycott) and back it up at the ballot box, you could actually effect change.
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if you misread my questions or I misread your answer. I'm asking about new opportunities this precedent allows, not existing ones it forbids. For example, the private WoW server case was ruled in favor of Blizzard. With this new precedent, would a court come to the same conclusion?
The OP certainly did answer your questions and since you asked the questions you did you probably already know the answers ;-).
Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the argument based on? Compared to for example software projects under permissive licenses, Creative Commons, etc, can you show that copyright does more than to simply help somebody popularize (through marketing) things that likely already would have existed?
How many AAA games have been created with permissive licences? What permissively licensed software is available to design ships or office buildings or integrated circuits? When Adobe created a gap in the market by making Creative Cloud subscription-only, it took just a few years for several quite slick and professionally well-regarded alternative products to appear, with feature sets catering to former users of Creat…