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Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

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Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#31

Post by NKCSS »

istorical wrote: post #28

The discussion around Vive vs Rift and Valve vs Oculus is getting more and more emotionally clouded and "good guys vs bad guys" with each passing week. People are letting their own frustration around Oculus' poorly managed launch and non-existent PR affect their perspective on the situation. The fact is that although Oculus is adopting somewhat of a walled garden approach, people entirely overlook that Valve maintain…

But Valve does so by providing a good platform. You have Origin, which is used mostly because of exclusive titles; most people I know would love to ditch origin for Steam.

Value also doesn't have the same approach as Occulus; where Occulus tries to be the iOS Appstore (others not allowed), Valve never had that approach.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#32

Post by agmcleod »

jc4p wrote: post #5

I have an Oculus CV1, I had the DK2, and I've been making VR side-projects using their SDK for a couple years now. I'm really disillusioned about Oculus as a platform, though. I didn't even consider buying the HTC Vive because I've been riding the Oculus train for a while and had faith in them as the future of VR, but come on. I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. Sidenote: for what it's worth, I h…

I have the DK2, doesn't work with my glasses :(. Admittedly i didn't try with a CV unit I got to check out, but my brother did and it worked for him. Might just vary depending on frames.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#33

Post by the_rosentotter »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #30
potatolicious wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto, I was one of the DK1 backers so got the CV1 for free. I haven't used it much past the first week - only to demo to friends and such, really. I have some disillusionment about it also - it seems like Valve VR/Vive is getting a lot more dev support. Having tried the Vive also, I think delaying the Oculus motion controllers was a critical error. It turns out the motion controllers really open up a lot of use case…

I have both. The Vive gets way more use, for one simple reason. Room scale is the future of VR. Some of the Oculus games are fantastic uses of the technology. Lucky's Tale has the camera on a rail based on where your character is, and EVE: Valkyrie has great mechanics for seated VR. But both of them feel like you're playing a game, albeit an immersive one, whereas room-scale vive games feel like I'm interacting with…

I am sceptical about this. People like to sit down for their entertainment, that is unlikely to change. Turning, swerving, swiveling, sure, but I bet most would quickly get fed up with having to get on their feet and move around in order to play their games.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#34

Post by kybernetikos »

istorical wrote: post #28

The discussion around Vive vs Rift and Valve vs Oculus is getting more and more emotionally clouded and "good guys vs bad guys" with each passing week. People are letting their own frustration around Oculus' poorly managed launch and non-existent PR affect their perspective on the situation. The fact is that although Oculus is adopting somewhat of a walled garden approach, people entirely overlook that Valve maintain…

> Oculus doesn't make any money on hardware right now, what can a person expect them to do? Just operate without any intention of ever making a profit?

This is confusing. If it's true that they make no money on hardware, then you'd expect them to be ecstatic that people want to buy their games (giving them money) without taking their hmd (which supposedly doesn't).

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#35

Post by bitmapbrother »

the_rosentotter wrote: post #7
__david__ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, he abruptly stopped posting on Reddit about a month ago [1]. I wonder if he lost some internal battle on this issue… [1] https://www.reddit.com/user/palmerluckey

There was a weird feature about Oculus at Facebook some months ago, where it was sort of hinted between the lines that Luckey and Zuckerberg didn't get along all that well. They even had to photoshop to get them into the same picture. Found it: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/09/oculus-rift-mark-zuck...

I read the article and never got that impression. If anything, he was grateful to facebook for not only purchasing the company, but also believing in his vision.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#36

Post by bitmapbrother »

shazow wrote: post #16
jc4p wrote: post #5

I have an Oculus CV1, I had the DK2, and I've been making VR side-projects using their SDK for a couple years now. I'm really disillusioned about Oculus as a platform, though. I didn't even consider buying the HTC Vive because I've been riding the Oculus train for a while and had faith in them as the future of VR, but come on. I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. Sidenote: for what it's worth, I h…

> I really wish I could know how Carmack feels about this. My impression is that Carmack is working on GearVR-related stuff in isolation from the rest of the Oculus/Facebook bureaucracy from the comfort of Dallas, TX. Hard to tell, but I'm not convinced he's even aware (or cares) about what's going on with Oculus in general: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/733761224098242560

Carmack is the CTO of Oculus. I'm sure he's involved in a lot more than just a side project like the GearVR.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#37

Post by bitmapbrother »

The winner will be decided by third party support. Oculus can continue with their DRM shenanigans, but in the end it's all going to be irrelevant. The third party developers will always exceed what Oculus or Vive put out in quality and quantity. And right now, according to Steam, Vive seems to have the majority of the third party developer support.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#38

Post by usrusr »

mtgx wrote: post #21
some-guy wrote: post #6

Oculus / Vive / PSVR are all "consoles" in a way, and that as competition becomes more and more fierce, profitability on hardware will go down over time. By staying a closed platform, if Oculus can deliver on their hardware while selling software on their platform. What's different about consoles though is that, at least in Oculus and Vive's case, the software looks to be fairly compatible with one another (hack-bloc…

I think Valve is trying to create an open platform for VR, so at least you could use Vive or some other device (probably not Oculus, though) that works with Steam VR games. It also makes no sense for Valve to allow anyone else that doesn't abide by those standards to use the Steam store (including Oculus).

Valve is in a very comfortable position. Steam will still be steam if VR implodes tomorrow, and for the opposite case, all they need to do is not getting left behind. There is no way something other than an open platform (well, as open or closed as conventional steam) could help them keep that position.

Re: Growing Rift Between Valve and Oculus

#40

Post by bitmapbrother »

serge2k wrote: post #14
some-guy wrote: post #6

Oculus / Vive / PSVR are all "consoles" in a way, and that as competition becomes more and more fierce, profitability on hardware will go down over time. By staying a closed platform, if Oculus can deliver on their hardware while selling software on their platform. What's different about consoles though is that, at least in Oculus and Vive's case, the software looks to be fairly compatible with one another (hack-bloc…

> By staying a closed platform, if Oculus can deliver on their hardware while selling software on their platform. Hopefully they will just go out of business instead. No more walled garden bullshit, this is a VR peripheral. It doesn't need an app store attached.

They're owned by facebook so going out of business is not going to happen. What is going to happen is a realignment of their core mission statement once facebook deems what they're doing is non value added.
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