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Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

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Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#91

Post by renaudg »

joering2 wrote: post #44
Freak_NL wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in order to protect my digital privacy, I should register myself at some alliance's website. It just doesn't make sense. Either this whole internet advertising thing turns out to be a bubble after all — in that case; let it pop, see if we can't figure out something better. If using ad-blockers and tracker-busters helps achieve that goal; good. Or we end up with an internet where all users settle somewhere on the p…

> So in order to protect my digital privacy, I should register myself at some alliance's website. It just doesn't make sense. Of course it doesn't make sense, but if you have millions from a billion dollar pool to spent on lobbyist and all kinds of dirtbags that are in power, all of sudden rules that have sound people scratch their head, are norm. > Either this whole internet advertising thing turns out to be a bubbl…

> Then I go on into long explanation how people don't go to facebook to buy products but to watch silly cat movies their friends upload, I'm never being listened to

Maybe you're not being listened to because what you're saying flies in the face of all known evidence in an entire discipline called "online marketing", and it also screams "Facebook holdout+privacy nerd rant", which most business owners will politely smile at but know not to take a marketing lecture from.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#92

Post by the_watcher »

hamana wrote: post #88
vthallam wrote: post #67

This is really a big thing since it directly affects the Google cash cow(Adwords/Doubleclick). Facebook has all the data in the world about a user(location, personal details, current mood) which google lacks and so they can target users on the rest of the internet in a better way.

It doesn't affect Adwords for search results. That is the real cash cow that is growing each year by double digit percentages. Doubleclick and Adsense on the other hand are starting to slow down and make up less share of Google's overall revenue [1]. In 2004 it was 50% of their revenue, now it's 20% and it's probably going to shrink even further as AdWords revenue and other revenues(cloud, apis) increase. > [1] http:…

Correct, this does not impact AdWords (save for publishers who are displaying AdWords results in AdSense modules, but that's a trivial amount of money). It does hit DoubleClick/AdSense/Google Display Network. It also hits the massive display advertising industry (most of which partner with Google for distribution). Billions of dollars are spent on display ad targeting through DMP audience segments. Facebook would instantly be the highest quality DMP on the market.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#93

Post by qihqi »

surreal wrote: post #82
vthallam wrote: post #67

This is really a big thing since it directly affects the Google cash cow(Adwords/Doubleclick). Facebook has all the data in the world about a user(location, personal details, current mood) which google lacks and so they can target users on the rest of the internet in a better way.

Google has internet searches. As well as often locations and journeys (Maps; Android). What a user watches (YouTube). Their emails (Gmail). What they do online (Analytics). Facebook knows personal details, mood, etc for people who explicitly choose to share these things with their friends, or participate on Facebook in other ways. This may be an oversimplification, but I suspect Google is able to learn much more abou…

Analytics cookie lives in a different cookie space and is really hard to join it back to search cookies; also it is probably illegal for google to do so.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#94

Post by tormeh »

Balgair wrote: post #79
EGreg wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great, but once you factor in all the people who downloaded this plugin and are otherwise slightly harder to fingerprint, it's still 99% accurate! So now what?

I don't understand your logic here

There's more to profiling than profiles. Local network topology, for example.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#95

Post by the_watcher »

surreal wrote: post #82
vthallam wrote: post #67

This is really a big thing since it directly affects the Google cash cow(Adwords/Doubleclick). Facebook has all the data in the world about a user(location, personal details, current mood) which google lacks and so they can target users on the rest of the internet in a better way.

Google has internet searches. As well as often locations and journeys (Maps; Android). What a user watches (YouTube). Their emails (Gmail). What they do online (Analytics). Facebook knows personal details, mood, etc for people who explicitly choose to share these things with their friends, or participate on Facebook in other ways. This may be an oversimplification, but I suspect Google is able to learn much more abou…

Google knows more about what users intend to do based on what they search for. Facebook knows more about individual likes, activities, interests, etc. Facebook likely won't ever compete with Google's AdWords business (barring the real possibility of a new product somewhere in the future). But in display advertising, building a user profile is more valuable, as it is a much less intent based ad. It's a fact that Facebook is better at this than Google, because Facebook display performs markedly better than Google Display.

> Facebook knows personal details, mood, etc for people who explicitly choose to share these things with their friends, or participate on Facebook in other ways.

Facebook knows so, so, so much more than just this. Facebook knows about events you go to and are interested in. Facebook knows the type of content that you are most likely to click. Facebook knows what you are most interested in.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#96

Post by astazangasta »

kasey_junk wrote: post #51
deprave wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course this comment was downvoted. I really want to know what's the opposing view to this statement. Who's going to step forward and say why they think this is wrong? At the very least, make an argument like "the AI needed to trick a teenager into spending half their awake time on Facebook can also be used to solve actual problems."

- spam free, virtually limitless storage free email - free video delivery channel, that has created its own industry - communication tool that has changed news delivery & how people organize protests - free chat communication (with e2e encryption) for nearly everyone in the world (including some of the poorest) - on demand data center infrastructure at ridiculously low cost - instantly freely searchable data set of m…

I deeply disagree with this on a level that will be difficult to capture in an Internet comment, but I will try:

What you're describing is the advancement of technology, which has occurred at the institutions that have accumulated the most power. Yes, Facebook, Google and others have hired some of the most talented people in the country, and these people have continued to produce useful technology while ensconced at these companies. Previously the same people could be found at AT&T, Xerox PARC, various DARPA-connected institutions, etc.

All you're describing is the shift in the center of power. In the 50s and 60s it was the government. During the 70s, as power began to shift more and more away from government towards private capital, we saw more and more technologists moving into the employ of monopolists.

It is a mistake to confuse this transfer of power, and the corresponding ability to purchase talent, with the output of that pool of smart people. Moreover in Silicon Valley these people are deeply connected to a much broader community of intellectuals (e.g. through HN) - I'd argue that this culture, of which many members currently sojourn in the arms of large corporations like Facebook, is the real productive unit.

Facebook found a money faucet and connected these people to it; but this money faucet could have been anything. It could have been something of real social value, except we have largely destroyed the mechanisms that direct productivity on the basis of social values and now direct it purely based on the interests of private capital, which is currently enamored with data accumulation and targeted advertising.

I'll end here, but I'd also like to point out that a lot of the stuff you've listed here existed long before Facebook and Google were a twinkle in anyone's eye. You're taking things that were literally developed in the 60s and giving credit to them for the private concentrations of power that were built on top of that work.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#98

Post by the_watcher »

sdoering wrote: post #10
eknkc wrote: post #3

Surprised they weren't doing that already. Facebook has javascript injected on a lot of sites, always assumed that they'd collect a shit ton of data whether you are a user or not. Also, all ad blockers block google analytics like tracking services but social plugins are generally opt in. I guess they should be blocked by default too.

I know a lot of AdBlocking Tools/List that do not block Google Analytics or Adobe Analytics by default. Do you know the ones that do?

AdBlock doesn't block GA. AdBlock blocks ads, not on site analytics tools. To block GA, either set your browser to do not track or disable JS

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#99

Post by renaudg »

deprave wrote: post #28
astazangasta wrote: post #17

Again, I deplore the colossal waste of human effort and talent that is going into building a sophisticated panopticon for the noble purpose of better targeted advertising . For fuck's sake, what a waste of the best minds of our generation.

Of course this comment was downvoted. I really want to know what's the opposing view to this statement. Who's going to step forward and say why they think this is wrong? At the very least, make an argument like "the AI needed to trick a teenager into spending half their awake time on Facebook can also be used to solve actual problems."

If providing a free of charge platform for humans to communicate, organize, build bridges, nurture their close social connections AND their loose ones especially (which used to be much more difficult, you wouldn't phone everyone daily) isn't enough for you, here are a few other things :

- Open Source software: https://code.facebook.com/projects/

- Open Source, eco-friendly datacenter hardware: http://www.opencompute.org/

- Solar planes R&D + partial or total Internet connectivity for remote third world areas that had none : https://info.internet.org/en/

- making a guy rich who has pledged to give away 99% of his fortune to charity?

There are far worse uses for human effort and talent, and even as a non-user you and/or the world are probably getting some dividends already.

Re: Facebook will show ads to non-Facebook users on other websites

#100

Post by ljk »

weinzierl wrote: post #61

> Users with a Facebook account can opt-out of the ad scheme by adjusting their settings, while non-Facebook members can opt-out through the Digital Advertising Alliance in the US, the Digital Advertising Alliance in Canada, and the European Interactive Digital Advertising Alliance in Europe. ...or by using a wide-spectrum blocker like uBlock Origin, and for the cookie warning problem there is a solution too: "EU: Pr…

Also use extensions like NoScript/Privacy Badger to block the background scripts
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