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China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

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Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#171

Post by xentronium »

schuke wrote: post #50

Maybe it doesn't work. I've always wondered why, among so many long-ruling authoritarian regimes, China is almost the only one with such strict censorship. Yes there was the Arab Spring but look at Saudi Arabia, Russia, Belarus, Vietnam..., they don't ban Facebook yet the incumbents' rule do not face exceptionally greater challenge than China. Maybe all censorship does is to give the Communist Party is false sense of…

Russia doesn't have direct censorship, however all mainstream media is nation-controlled. Also there is an internet censorship registry/banlist that blocks some of the opposition media for "exremism".

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#172

Post by worldvoyageur »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #86
bad_user wrote: post #67

Of course it does. I wouldn't bet that it will last though. I often tell people how I was born under communism and that what happened before 1989 in Romania and maybe in other Easter European countries makes the 1984 novel seem unrealistic and boring. We had far worst forms of censorship and propaganda, paranoia about being caught with doublethink by nosy neighbors was at al times high, yet everything looked normal,…

> The far more aggravating thing is that we tolerate China, choose to do business with Chinese companies and buy Chinese products. A trade embargo (aka cold war) would be a lot worse for everyone involved.. Leads to arms race and threats of war, even less freedom and more injustice for the people (eg North Korea). > we are trading our values, for which people freaking died to win, for short term convenience .. Yeah,…

While I agree that it isn't a good idea to have a trade embargo of China because we don't like how they run their country, I will quibble with the idea that at least my grandfathers and great uncles didn't know what they chose to fight and, if necessary, die for.

" we in this island and in the British Empire will never lose our sense of comradeship with the French people. If we are now called upon to endure what they have suffered we shall emulate their courage, and if final victory rewards our toils they shall share the gains, aye. And freedom shall be restored to all.

We abate nothing of our just demands—Czechs, Poles, Norwegians, Dutch, Belgians, all who have joined their causes to our own shall be restored.

...the Battle of France is over ... the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire.

The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be freed and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands.

But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science.

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves, that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, This was their finest hour. "

This was Churchill, June 16, 1940, when it was not at all obvious that there was any way to win the war. My grandfathers and great uncles volunteered anyway, as did tens of thousands of others. They did not want to, but knew they had to. As Churchill said, it was '...let us brace ourselves to our duties...'.

As for China, it is our duty to show that there is another way to organize a society. Give them full exposure, through trade and visits. Then, as they figure things out, be there to help them through the process.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#173

Post by jerf »

kingkawn wrote: post #158
bad_user wrote: post #67

Of course it does. I wouldn't bet that it will last though. I often tell people how I was born under communism and that what happened before 1989 in Romania and maybe in other Easter European countries makes the 1984 novel seem unrealistic and boring. We had far worst forms of censorship and propaganda, paranoia about being caught with doublethink by nosy neighbors was at al times high, yet everything looked normal,…

I think after the collapse of any social system the hindsight would appear to show nothing but discontent. If the U.S. underwent the same social reordering that the former USSR did there would be a cultural tsunami of prescient signs that went tragically undiscussed due to the obviously blind and limiting social order.

Like, say, massive debt spikes both personal and federal, near-decade-long economic malaise, massive discontent with the political class resulting in the nomination of a total outsider by one party and the other party having a massive fight between the outsider and the establishment candidate that still isn't settled, massive discontent with the press, social unrest about race and inequality issues, significant rises in drug abuse and suicide in certain groups, and a wildly whiplashing set of social norms changing so fast even those who nominally agree with them can have a hard time keeping up with the official social norms for this week (which is very nearly not an exaggeration)?

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#174

Post by Frqy3 »

Flimm wrote: post #93
SFJulie wrote: post #89

You can censor by scarcity (China) or censor by overabundance of trivia (Western). When Kardashian out weigth cultural news, PR of corps outweigth economical analysis, half baked tutorial replaces consistent tutorial, unproven science replaces science : you drown signal in noise. How many Western citizens have read that the middle eastern wars are mainly about the top 4 weapon dealers (UK, USA, Fr, Russia) bribing lo…

The Chinese government does censor by overabundance of trivia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party . Do you have evidence that Western governments are doing similar things?

Not too hard to find.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op...

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#175

Post by hawkice »

eob wrote: post #43
zhte415 wrote: post #10

China's firewall is largely constructed to create technology transfer towards China. This may be in the form of hindering sales for comapanies they may have interesting opportunities for investment, from sports shoes to embedded microchips, to financial products. It is also part of a much greater Golden Shield network. But a lot has changed over the past 5 years. A contrast of goals/objectives: the Golden Shield form…

> China's firewall is largely constructed to create technology transfer towards China. That's been a huge effect of the GFW, but is there material indicating it was the original purpose? My understanding was that much of the explosion in Chinese censorship tech happened as a way to prevent social media from gaining control over the news cycle. (i.e., when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts new…

This is an odd idea. I remember, after the explosions in Tianjin, the only place to find reasonably up-to-date information was on Chinese social media. The government wasn't saying much of anything, facts or blame-wise. Social media eventually sussed out (1) that there was massive negligence, which the government confirmed months later, and (2) one of the companies who was handling way more dangerous chemicals than it should have was operated by shadow-CEOs and may have been getting around regulations by being controlled by a former Tianjin dock safety manager. I still have no idea if the second one was ever proven, but I suspect it's true. And if censorship was meant to prevent blame-game stuff, there's no way so many people would have used social media to figure that out (on the other hand, this is one of those scenarios where the people and the government are generally in agreement -- the people who let that happen were never going to get any leniency from the government).

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#176

Post by flatM »

SFJulie wrote: post #89

You can censor by scarcity (China) or censor by overabundance of trivia (Western). When Kardashian out weigth cultural news, PR of corps outweigth economical analysis, half baked tutorial replaces consistent tutorial, unproven science replaces science : you drown signal in noise. How many Western citizens have read that the middle eastern wars are mainly about the top 4 weapon dealers (UK, USA, Fr, Russia) bribing lo…

Very spot-on post. I don't have any facts or numbers though. But my gut feelings is that the percentage of people that survive the scarcity (China) or overabundance (West) are comparable.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#177

Post by Mikushi »

studentrob wrote: post #130
TeMPOraL wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem isn't when only certain media sources are allowed - honestly, the problem is when any media sources are allowed at all. Frankly, I think Amercians are as deceived by propaganda as the Chinese. Did we somehow forget in this thread that in western press, one can rarely find an article that isn't full of bullshit? Even if the reasons differ (western media do this for profit), the end result is the same.

> honestly, the problem is when any media sources are allowed at all Lol. Yes let's just stop all people from communicating. That will solve everything. > in western press, one can rarely find an article that isn't full of bullshit There's plenty of good reporting in the West. The way to get informed is to read many viewpoints and form your own opinion. Stopping all non-government press would be terrible for a countr…

A vast majority of people do not have the time to do any of that, simple as that.

And the mainstream press is not to be counted on the good reporting side of things so while good reporting is out there, it is not accessible to the mass. That being the reason why good reporting still exists, because in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#178

Post by itsthecourier »

Been in Beijing last month, the great firewall was an increíble move for local internet companies. Google would had won the battle with Baidu, Facebook and Twitter with Wechat, just to mention a few.

Nos, they are so big that when the firewall comes down they will keep running the market

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#179

Post by itsthecourier »

Been in Beijing last month, the great firewall was an increíble move for local internet companies. Google would had won the battle with Baidu, Facebook and Twitter with Wechat, just to mention a few.

Nos, they are so big that when the firewall comes down they will keep running the market

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#180

Post by studentrob »

Mikushi wrote: post #177
studentrob wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> honestly, the problem is when any media sources are allowed at all Lol. Yes let's just stop all people from communicating. That will solve everything. > in western press, one can rarely find an article that isn't full of bullshit There's plenty of good reporting in the West. The way to get informed is to read many viewpoints and form your own opinion. Stopping all non-government press would be terrible for a countr…

A vast majority of people do not have the time to do any of that, simple as that. And the mainstream press is not to be counted on the good reporting side of things so while good reporting is out there, it is not accessible to the mass. That being the reason why good reporting still exists, because in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter.

> A vast majority of people do not have the time to do any of that

A quality education is not spoon fed. It is the responsibility of the individual to educate him or herself. Making media available is only half of the equation

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