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China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#121

Post by Shivetya »

bad_user wrote: post #67

Of course it does. I wouldn't bet that it will last though. I often tell people how I was born under communism and that what happened before 1989 in Romania and maybe in other Easter European countries makes the 1984 novel seem unrealistic and boring. We had far worst forms of censorship and propaganda, paranoia about being caught with doublethink by nosy neighbors was at al times high, yet everything looked normal,…

We kind of have to keep China engaged economically to keep the threat of war down and reduce the desire of their leadership to look for conflict to deflect internal criticism. Its a bit much for them to close pandora's box but if the rest of the world jumps on the lid it can be done and the Chia vs World scenario is more saleable at home

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#122

Post by studentrob »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #55
jondubois wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China definitely has its problems but my point is that there are problems everywhere and we shouldn't single-out any specific country because we think that their problems are worse than ours (maybe they have the opposite opinion). The reality is that no one has the moral high ground; we are all competing for resources and relevance and every country is willing to resort to dirty tricks to get ahead. China has the Gre…

No; we should single them out in this thread. Because this thread is about them. We talk about the NSA about five times as much as about the Great Firewall. And when we do, it's off-topic to butt in with "but China has TGF!" Just as much, this is not the place to dismiss anything based on the NSA. This is as literal an example of changing the subject as you can get. A hypocrite isn't wrong. He's just a hypocrite. Eve…

> No; we should single them out in this thread. Because this thread is about them.

Amen! In my experience, on articles critical of China, 90% of the comments are deflections about the West. Here's one thread that's easy to count [1]. 9/10 comments talk about how the West does it too

[1] https://archive.is/HnyDk

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#123

Post by studentrob »

catnaroek wrote: post #112
studentrob wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History suggests that China's main problems in the last couple of centuries were Japan and the West themselves Individuals take responsibility for themselves. Countries can too

> Individuals take responsibility for themselves. Countries can too Sure. Controlling the influence of Western ideas seems to be exactly they way they're doing it. Reasonable IMO.

It is not reasonable to round up protesters and throw them in jail. That's an authoritarian regime who's afraid of its population. At the same time, they ask this population to lead China to greater economic growth. It does not make sense.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#125

Post by TeMPOraL »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #117
TeMPOraL wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half a year ago in Shenzhen I did manage to buy a prepaid SIM card from a street vendor without showing any kind of identification whatsoever. I've heard about that law, and I know my friends had to show their passports to get SIM cards, but apparently the law isn't obeyed that much. Mind you - it wasn't some shady vendor, it was a random electronics store on a commercial street.

They threaten to shutdown your SIM eventually if they don't have an ID#/passport associated with it. But they are very bad about follow through.

I see. Well, it only had to last a month :).

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#126

Post by studentrob »

appleflaxen wrote: post #116
studentrob wrote: post #100

This article fails to define what "works" means Does censorship give China a better economy? Does it make people more happy? Safe? Does censorship eradicate certain ideas? Does it prevent people from communicating domestically or internationally? There's no data in the article that suggests any of this is true.

Works means "is technically feasible". It doesn't matter if you think it's a good idea or not: the ruling class in China thinks it is. And any government who thinks it's a good idea in the future knows it's technically possible based on China's example.

Right, all they need to do is convince their population to abandon Facebook and use the government sanctioned social media. I'm sure that will go over well.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#127

Post by khrm »

zhte415 wrote: post #85
thaumasiotes wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy.

>> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM > I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy. It is the law: to get a SIM card, must submit ID card scan or passport scan.

In India too, you need ID card to get sim card. And your sim card is activated after verification. In west you don't need to? How does Security agencies collect data? India is quite free albeit there's a recent surge of fascism.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#128

Post by paradite »

bsder wrote: post #16

I would argue that even without the Great Firewall, China starts isolated by the fact that its language isn't really shared by anybody else.

So is every single language on plant earth:

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/World-Languages.jpg

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#129

Post by okc »

UVB-76 wrote: post #115

Link to the actual report: https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/freedom-net-2015 Let's not kid ourselves, though. The US scored 19 and UK scored 24 (on the scale of 0-100, 0 being most free) Censorship is alive and well in the West.

The criteria for censorship at the 20 points level - could be debated as - quite healthy criteria.

Criteria such as the government controlling online harassment is classed, rightly, as censorship. Political anarchy would be the reflection of 0 point score.

Is 0, 10, 20, even 30 or 40 points the optimum score: thats debatable. At the 80+ level, its really not debatable.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#130

Post by studentrob »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #106
studentrob wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the fundamental problem with democracy: people are easily influenced That's not a problem with democracy. It's how people learn. We learn something and form an opinion about it. The problem comes when only certain media sources are allowed. In that case, it's harder for people to discuss alternate viewpoints

No, the problem isn't when only certain media sources are allowed - honestly, the problem is when any media sources are allowed at all. Frankly, I think Amercians are as deceived by propaganda as the Chinese. Did we somehow forget in this thread that in western press, one can rarely find an article that isn't full of bullshit? Even if the reasons differ (western media do this for profit), the end result is the same.

> honestly, the problem is when any media sources are allowed at all

Lol. Yes let's just stop all people from communicating. That will solve everything.

> in western press, one can rarely find an article that isn't full of bullshit

There's plenty of good reporting in the West. The way to get informed is to read many viewpoints and form your own opinion. Stopping all non-government press would be terrible for a country's education, economic development, and general happiness.

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