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China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

washingtonpost.com

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Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#111

Post by studentrob »

charoko wrote: post #63
kmonsen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is allowing free information while the other has the great firewall and random arrests for people writing negative comments about the party in power. Although the US is not as democratic as it should be your comparison is not even laughable. I find it hard that people can be so misled, or maybe you are just trolling. China has a brutal dictatorship that executes people for trying to get more power and were respon…

> If you think you could live in China and even write anything about the party the way you write about the US government from your comment you are delusional. Censorship in China Allows Government Criticism but Silences Collective Expression Contrary to previous understandings, posts with negative, even vitriolic, criticism of the state, its leaders, and its policies are not more likely to be censored. Instead, we sh…

Yeah. Combine that with the fact that protesters are thrown in jail willy nilly and the above comment still stands

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#112

Post by catnaroek »

studentrob wrote: post #107
catnaroek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History suggests that China's main problems in the last couple of centuries were Japan and the West themselves. (Not that one can wish others out of existence.) Curtailing the influence of Western ideas makes perfect sense for them.

> History suggests that China's main problems in the last couple of centuries were Japan and the West themselves Individuals take responsibility for themselves. Countries can too

> Individuals take responsibility for themselves. Countries can too

Sure. Controlling the influence of Western ideas seems to be exactly they way they're doing it. Reasonable IMO.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#113

Post by UVB-76 »

crasp wrote: post #96

So by the looks of the picture halfway down the page the porn filter in the UK has also been removed because they are labeled as 'free'? or is porn not a part of (internet) freedom anymore?

Apparently there are many shades of 'free'

The UK scored 24 out of 100, 0 being the most free.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#114

Post by studentrob »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #110
hamstergene wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're locked in a kitchen, even though there is more than one choice of food are you free to decide what to eat? What if you was born there and don't really know all variety options you could have? Centralized propaganda makes "freedom of choice" very controversial topic. Especially when its source has all the power to censor and prosecute.

You know, this is a great example. Let me continue the kitchen analogy. Those of us born in the West are lead to think that being stuck in the kitchen sucks. That people stuck in the kitchen will suffer and/or be in a constant state of revolt and unhappiness. I know thats how I thought before I left (whether I realized it or not). Consequently we think that America is quite far from being stuck in the kitchen because…

> Let me tell you what's truly scary about China: the censorship, authoritarian rule, all the "stuck in the kitchen things" are a lot more palatable than we are lead to believe

China is livable for people so long as they do not criticize the government.

People who do so are often thrown in prison indefinitely without trial, and only released if they sign a form saying they will never protest again.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#116

Post by appleflaxen »

studentrob wrote: post #100

This article fails to define what "works" means Does censorship give China a better economy? Does it make people more happy? Safe? Does censorship eradicate certain ideas? Does it prevent people from communicating domestically or internationally? There's no data in the article that suggests any of this is true.

Works means "is technically feasible".

It doesn't matter if you think it's a good idea or not: the ruling class in China thinks it is. And any government who thinks it's a good idea in the future knows it's technically possible based on China's example.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#117

Post by seanmcdirmid »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #105
zhte415 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM > I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy. It is the law: to get a SIM card, must submit ID card scan or passport scan.

Half a year ago in Shenzhen I did manage to buy a prepaid SIM card from a street vendor without showing any kind of identification whatsoever. I've heard about that law, and I know my friends had to show their passports to get SIM cards, but apparently the law isn't obeyed that much. Mind you - it wasn't some shady vendor, it was a random electronics store on a commercial street.

They threaten to shutdown your SIM eventually if they don't have an ID#/passport associated with it. But they are very bad about follow through.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#118

Post by wfn »

comex wrote: post #11

So what about Tor and obfsproxy? Does it actually (still) work? If so, why don't more people use it?; if not, why not? I can't easily find up-to-date information about this through Google - which I find odd, since China is such an important use case for Tor that I would expect them to maintain some sort of status page. Maybe the information is more readily available in Chinese...

obfs4-type Tor bridges should still work iirc? (https://bridges.torproject.org/bridges?transport=obfs4)

meek should also work in mainland China. See https://blog.torproject.org/blog/how-use-%E2%80%9Cmeek%E2%80...

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#119

Post by bad_user »

notbingo wrote: post #98
bad_user wrote: post #67

Of course it does. I wouldn't bet that it will last though. I often tell people how I was born under communism and that what happened before 1989 in Romania and maybe in other Easter European countries makes the 1984 novel seem unrealistic and boring. We had far worst forms of censorship and propaganda, paranoia about being caught with doublethink by nosy neighbors was at al times high, yet everything looked normal,…

What about North Korea? Why does it last there? Why don't they revolt? But actually, a more relevant question would be, why haven't they already? How much suffering can they take? I'm Romanian too. The censorship, oppression, and whatever other bad thing you might want to refer to, will last as long as the powers that be want it to last. When our "revolution" happened, people didn't even know what to think of it when…

Dude, you're too pessimistic, much like all of our Romanian brethren :)

Not to glorify our own revolution, because there isn't much to glorify about it, but the spark triggering a revolution is never conscious and it's by definition a violent process, so of course people do not want revolutions. It's not like they were speaking about it on forums, it's not like they woke up one day and decided to have it. And yes, you'll always have people satisfied with their lives, or ignorant. Doesn't matter though and you know as well as I do that Radio Free Europe was the most popular radio station, as a form of civil unrest, in spite of people actually fearing the secret service for listening to it. What happened in Bucharest wasn't an isolated event. It started earlier with Brașov in 1986. It was bound to happen, trying to hide the events from Timișoara being just what broke the camel's back.

> some older people that I have met even say they liked it better back then

Old people always say that. It's an inherent bias in how our memory works. We tend to forget the bad and our attention deficit only grows as we get older.

Did you know that in the past years we've had the lowest levels of sickness and that global poverty is at an all times low? We are probably living the best years in history and when I'll be old I'll be able to say that as well and regret year 2016 and say to youngsters that "in my days not that many people died of hunger".

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#120

Post by aavotins »

UVB-76 wrote: post #113
crasp wrote: post #96

So by the looks of the picture halfway down the page the porn filter in the UK has also been removed because they are labeled as 'free'? or is porn not a part of (internet) freedom anymore?

Apparently there are many shades of 'free' The UK scored 24 out of 100, 0 being the most free.

With Germany prosecuting people who download torrents, UK banning internet pornography and US manhunt against Edward Snowden and Assange, there is definitely more than one shade of free. The image of freedom is being shaped and tailored for everyone individually, it's a Brave New World out there.
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