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China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

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Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#131

Post by catnaroek »

studentrob wrote: post #123
catnaroek wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Individuals take responsibility for themselves. Countries can too Sure. Controlling the influence of Western ideas seems to be exactly they way they're doing it. Reasonable IMO.

It is not reasonable to round up protesters and throw them in jail. That's an authoritarian regime who's afraid of its population. At the same time, they ask this population to lead China to greater economic growth. It does not make sense.

That's an entirely separate matter - and kind of off-topic, considering how this thread is about Internet censorship, not treatment of dissenters.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#132

Post by bad_user »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #86
bad_user wrote: post #67

Of course it does. I wouldn't bet that it will last though. I often tell people how I was born under communism and that what happened before 1989 in Romania and maybe in other Easter European countries makes the 1984 novel seem unrealistic and boring. We had far worst forms of censorship and propaganda, paranoia about being caught with doublethink by nosy neighbors was at al times high, yet everything looked normal,…

> The far more aggravating thing is that we tolerate China, choose to do business with Chinese companies and buy Chinese products. A trade embargo (aka cold war) would be a lot worse for everyone involved.. Leads to arms race and threats of war, even less freedom and more injustice for the people (eg North Korea). > we are trading our values, for which people freaking died to win, for short term convenience .. Yeah,…

I don't think we have the same definition for freedom. Here's one freedom that we do have: I have the freedom to denounce China's attitude towards censorship and you're free to counteract with other arguments, leading us to dialog, on a public forum.

And on people dying, that's just another way of saying that great sacrifice has been made for us to enjoy the lifestyle and freedoms that we do have, so we can't trade those so easily, because then our children will have to repay that price.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#133

Post by paradite »

slezyr wrote: post #6
windmaple wrote: post #3

Does it?

You can try to as them about tank man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

I, as well as my parents, my grandparents, and many other Chinese, know about the incident, but we do not necessarily agree with the Western media's opinions on it. After all, our parents were the ones that witnessed it, and they should have a better understanding of what really happened.

You can read this article by Western media to get a different perspective: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinas-leader-talks-to-60-minute...

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#134

Post by paradite »

jokoon wrote: post #82

I don't really know if it's that much worrying. I mean can the entire world really criticize china, when you see so many companies having influence in democratically elected governments? If you look at the political science of it, I think that this firewall is there to mitigate the potential instability of the chinese government. This is not new. I mean I'm okay with critics as long as it aims for progress, but the r…

I agree. But first rule of HN: Do not defend China or you will be down-voted to the bottom.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#135

Post by WickyNilliams »

comex wrote: post #11

So what about Tor and obfsproxy? Does it actually (still) work? If so, why don't more people use it?; if not, why not? I can't easily find up-to-date information about this through Google - which I find odd, since China is such an important use case for Tor that I would expect them to maintain some sort of status page. Maybe the information is more readily available in Chinese...

When I was out there last year, I was able to use VPNs to access otherwise blocked services (e.g. Facebook, Google etc). My (British) friend who lives there is still able to use VPNs. He is based in Shenzhen, which has a thriving tech scene, so I guess they are more lax with blocking VPNs there. Nevertheless, he is moving to HK soon to escape some of the restrictions

It's quite weird having an android phone in China, since almost all the services are blocked.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#136

Post by GantzGraf »

khrm wrote: post #127
zhte415 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM > I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy. It is the law: to get a SIM card, must submit ID card scan or passport scan.

In India too, you need ID card to get sim card. And your sim card is activated after verification. In west you don't need to? How does Security agencies collect data? India is quite free albeit there's a recent surge of fascism.

Kenya too. You have to register your SIM card in order for it to be activated. Registration involves a form of ID (passport/birth certificate)

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#137

Post by agumonkey »

dasil003 wrote: post #30

I don't subscribe to common western black and white views on US vs Chinese freedom, and in fact I am fairly paranoid about the US government overreach of power, however I don't see that Chinese-style internet censorship has any applicability to the US or European governments. I'm far more concerned about the power exterted by increasingly large corporations who want extract as much rent from the network as possible.…

Anecdote: On Omegle a while ago, I chat with a Chinese girl, all Chinese guys I met there were always anxious about how other people would see their country, so I proceed to explain that I grew up very fond of many things about China, martial arts, silk clothes, temples, food, pictural art, kanjis. The girl listens happily and then tells me 'you know, not everything in China is good, ... ' Then 3 seconds blank. Then 'oh god .. god ... no' then left asking me to forget what she said, that her country is great and she loves it very much. Then quit.

I guess she was worried her messages would be logged and have consequences.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#138

Post by coldtea »

bad_user wrote: post #67

Of course it does. I wouldn't bet that it will last though. I often tell people how I was born under communism and that what happened before 1989 in Romania and maybe in other Easter European countries makes the 1984 novel seem unrealistic and boring. We had far worst forms of censorship and propaganda, paranoia about being caught with doublethink by nosy neighbors was at al times high, yet everything looked normal,…

>Now that's fucked up, because we are trading our values

From the slave trade and colonialism, to the holocaust and 100s of periphery proxy wars, what would those be? The almighty dollar?

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#139

Post by GantzGraf »

nbevans wrote: post #88
13of40 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you were there, did you get a feel for whether people there would pay for a semi-reliable bridge through the firewall?

"Will they pay for freedom"? Seriously?

I thought it was a good question.

"Do people in China in general care enough about censorship to pay for access to uncensored internet?" doesn't have an explicitly obvious answer, does it?

They could be happy with their internet as is. They could be unhappy and willing to pay. They could be unhappy but unwilling/unable to pay.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#140

Post by tim333 »

SXX wrote: post #101
schuke wrote: post #50

Maybe it doesn't work. I've always wondered why, among so many long-ruling authoritarian regimes, China is almost the only one with such strict censorship. Yes there was the Arab Spring but look at Saudi Arabia, Russia, Belarus, Vietnam..., they don't ban Facebook yet the incumbents' rule do not face exceptionally greater challenge than China. Maybe all censorship does is to give the Communist Party is false sense of…

China don't have as much natural resources per citizen as Russia, don't have huge totalitarian sponsor next to like Belarus and don't have as much oil as Saudi Arabia. Never did any research on Vietnam so have no idea. Reason why Russia regime still exist without heavy censorship is billions and billions of dollars burn to sustain level of consumption. Russian economy is nothing compared to China, but hey most of peo…

Vietnam has mild censorship - the block the BBC unless you use a VPN - and the government isn't that unpopular with free health and education and 7% growth so they don't have to try that hard. You can still end up fired/imprisoned/deported if you do the wrong thing though.
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