Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#131

Post by ciupicri » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 9:22 AM UTC

houseabsolute wrote: post #58

I am really disappointed in the HN commentary on this one. A quarter of the commenters seem to have stopped reading when they saw the anime criticism. Half came in here to say that the guy sounds boring. And the remainder is split between talking about patio11 (what the fuck is that?) and how long the article was. Most of the criticism here seems to boil down to the same "you're not Japanese" bullshit the author ment…

> American corporations do make people do some incredible bullshit, but nothing on the level of the official greeting he mentioned.

While I agree that the way they shout good morning might be a bit strange, it does make sense. It makes everyone more polite, instead of rude. And speaking of politeness, Americans are way too informal compared to other cultures. As for greetings, I hate the "How do you do?" question which I think is pretty stupid/useless as this video shows - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p8u2LSyEwc

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#132

Post by kazuya » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 9:48 AM UTC

The article is a bit amusing even for a native Japanese, but too lengthy for me to read it through.

I happened to work at a big-business cubicle farm (or kind of) in Tokyo, but there is no such obligatory parties. I have heard of that kind of stories but they are almost caricaturized and exaggerated. If any, he was just unlucky about it.

However I agree about smoking. That's so pervasive and annoying. But I found our situation better than some of south European countries, and smoking in public space is being illegalized.

It's totally okay for him to moan as he likes, but of course, don't take it as he writes.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#133

Post by barrkel » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 9:48 AM UTC

ciupicri wrote: post #131

houseabsolute wrote: post #58

I am really disappointed in the HN commentary on this one. A quarter of the commenters seem to have stopped reading when they saw the anime criticism. Half came in here to say that the guy sounds boring. And the remainder is split between talking about patio11 (what the fuck is that?) and how long the article was. Most of the criticism here seems to boil down to the same "you're not Japanese" bullshit the author ment…

> American corporations do make people do some incredible bullshit, but nothing on the level of the official greeting he mentioned. While I agree that the way they shout good morning might be a bit strange, it does make sense. It makes everyone more polite, instead of rude. And speaking of politeness, Americans are way too informal compared to other cultures. As for greetings, I hate the "How do you do?" question whi…

What pathology do you ascribe to lack of formality? What practical problems does it cause, outside of seeming odd / stupid / useless to those less familiar with it?

Excessive formality, on the other hand, has been implicated in e.g. plane crashes, where inferiors hesitate to criticize their superiors when they may have made a mistake.

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#134

Post by barrkel » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 10:02 AM UTC

caffeine wrote: post #64

He should move back to the U.S. for a while. I bet he lasts two weeks before he's screaming for Chokukuro.

I was wondering what the difference between this "chocolate croissant" and a pain au chocolat was. (I have seen pains au chocolat described as chocolate croissants in the northern CA area.)

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#135

Post by maxwin » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 11:09 AM UTC

It is all about cultural relativity. This blogger grows up in Western culture so it is so natural for him to perceive things or norms that are different from his norms/culture as being weird.

For example, he complained a lot about the Japanese greeting "You're tired". About how it doesn't make sense.

However, to many Japanese, it is just a way of saying "hi".

Dude, a Japanese coming to US will complain about the greeting "What's up" being so freaking weird and rude.

Yeah, the sky is up!

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#136

Post by ytinas » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 11:41 AM UTC

quant18 wrote: post #96

bh23ha wrote: post #41

This poor person is suffering from culture shock. I'm an immigrant let me explain. Culture shock is not OMG they eat X here. Culture shock develops slowly from the stress of being away from home and living in a strange land. You are long over people eating X or what ever, and then one day you're just sick of it all. Not exactly ALL of it, but you tend to fixate on the defects of the strange place you're in and you're…

And as an European I feel that American corporate culture bleeds far too far into everyone's personal life. Huh, I had the opposite experience when I worked for a small Dutch company. The amount of enforced merry-making (not to mention all the emphasis on consensus-formation) really got on my nerves. Never saw anything like it when I was working for American companies. It did remind me of my brief career in Tokyo ---…

You've never worked for an American company that tried to tell you what you could/couldn't do outside of work? Either you've had good luck or I've had bad because every place I worked for tried to impose their rules beyond the office parking lot. Maybe it was due to working in a "right to work" state?

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#137

Post by jrockway » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 11:44 AM UTC

Yeah, Asia is different from the US. Different people, different cultural values.

I went to high school in Japan for a year, so I disagree with some of the author's points. Nobody tried to isolate me from the "real" students, for example. Nobody really cared that I was different from them; there was too much other stuff to worry about (exams, extracurricular activities, etc.) I think a lot of people think that they are going to get special treatment for being white, and then don't, and then call it racism. (And admittedly, there is a little of that from normal people, and it is usually cleared up when you are able to explain your situation in Japanese. Same as any culture -- until you speak their language, you are considered retarded. We do it in the US, too.)

Anyway, I know a lot of people in Japan that are software developers, and they opt out of the whole "salaryman" thing too. In the end, it's your choice how to spend your life. There is the easy path of least resistance, but if you don't like that, then you can do something else. Just like everywhere else in the world.

The only thing I don't like about Japan is the political and criminal justice system. This is beginning to annoy Japanese people, too, though, so the era of their third-world criminal justice system is probably coming to an end. Maybe they will get rid of the rich career politicians too, although even the US can't figure that one out :)

(Looks like they finally have the concept of a "trial by peers" now, although it's not quite like the common-law system. Better than "you're guilty because some judge thinks so", however.)

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#138

Post by rend » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 12:00 PM UTC

bh23ha wrote: post #41

This poor person is suffering from culture shock. I'm an immigrant let me explain. Culture shock is not OMG they eat X here. Culture shock develops slowly from the stress of being away from home and living in a strange land. You are long over people eating X or what ever, and then one day you're just sick of it all. Not exactly ALL of it, but you tend to fixate on the defects of the strange place you're in and you're…

Speaking of host culture, this is an interesting blog I came across written by an American ex-pat working as a host in Osaka.

http://gaijinhostsabin.justin-klein.com/the-rules-of-the-gam...

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#139

Post by c00p3r » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 12:13 PM UTC

Just one remark - "hostess club" in Kathmandu are called dance bars. Same idea - pay, talk and go away. Prices are ten times higher than on street. Juice will cost you 10 bucks. And a men returns to buy even more dreams. Lots of Indians, Germans (of course) and Russians. =)

Re: Japan: It's Not Funny Anymore

#140

Post by pwim » Mon, Mar 08, 2010, 1:35 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #106

ramchip wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, he's not the only HN reader in Japan... ;) I'm not sure what needs commenting. The article is quite in-depth and mostly fits with my experience. I can add an anecdote, perhaps, on this part: The Japanese are so serious about work that even work-related parties are mandatory. If you don't go to a company party, you're not part of the team. If you're not part of the team, it's possible you're not actually wor…

For some reason, I'm getting an (obviously wrong) impression from this conversation that the only type of work you can get in Japan comes in the form of big-business cubicle farms. patio11's input would be interesting here because he's getting by without working at one of these.

I worked in a small-medium business in Tokyo for a couple of years. The developers were primarily other foreigners, but the rest of the company was Japanese.

The company never really had any drinking parties, and from my perspective I wish there had been. On the other hand, I never really worked overtime, never felt pressure to do so, and didn't suffer from any of the other major stereotypical problems.

For the last year I've been running my own consulting firm here. Around me it seems like there are many other people do their own innovative things here, but maybe those are just the circles I run in.