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How Windows Everywhere finally happened

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Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#11

Post by voltagex_ »

pjmlp wrote: post #3
wornohaulus wrote: post #2

What are the substantial benefits of getting onboard the UWP rain ? Will the platform code work faster.. will the deployment be faster ? what about the knowledge devs have gathered for decades. will the new way of doing things produce a more efficient and better running application ?

For long time Windows developers like myself, the underlying model of WinRT is what the original .NET was supposed to be. It was called Ext-OS and based on an improved COM API, called COM+ Runtime. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net... So with C++/CX and .NET Native built on top of WinRT, Microsoft has gone full circle back to the original idea. Personally I enjoy developing UWP (started rig…

Do you use XAML? What do you think of it? I've never really been able to get my head around it - although my professional projects are mostly ASP.NET MVC and WebAPI so I've had no real pressing need to learn it.

Am I the only one who still likes Windows Forms?

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#12

Post by sandworm101 »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

> Microsoft has still arguably achieved something that its competitors have not. Rumors that Google will somehow merge ChromeOS and Android have been circulating for some time, but it hasn't happened just yet Uhhh.. ChromeOS and Android are both Linux. This is just as merged as running a stripped down Windows kernel.

I'd call linux a direct competitor of MS. There may be no single entity who as done as much with linux, but linux as software is certainly more pervasive than windows.

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#13

Post by thebigshane »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

> Microsoft has still arguably achieved something that its competitors have not. Rumors that Google will somehow merge ChromeOS and Android have been circulating for some time, but it hasn't happened just yet Uhhh.. ChromeOS and Android are both Linux. This is just as merged as running a stripped down Windows kernel.

I think you might be underestimating just how aligned Windows 10 is across these devices, certainly more than Android vs ChromeOS is. (Then again, from what I hear, ChromeOS is starting to creep more toward Android... So maybe that is changing). This is more than a shared stripped-down kernel.

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#14

Post by sandworm101 »

Maarten88 wrote: post #9

Operation successful, patient dead... It's kind of tragic that much of this effort may never pay off: in the process of merging platforms and restructuring API's (that started with Vista and is still going) Microsoft lost the connection to many of its developers, who went to build Web, iOS and Android apps. WPF, Silverlight, WinRT, XAML, UWP: there were too many changes, rewrites and deprecations. Windows Phone, bril…

>>Microsoft really needs to stop introducing "upgrades" that require application rewrites in Windows for the next 3-5 years, and focus on getting the Windows Store going.

Those application rewrites are part of the Windows Store push. Want the latest version of X, then you need the latest version of Windows which, if all goes to plan, will only run software from the windows store. MS has always been very good at turning the updating of third party software into new sales for windows.

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#15

Post by thebigshane »

wornohaulus wrote: post #2

What are the substantial benefits of getting onboard the UWP rain ? Will the platform code work faster.. will the deployment be faster ? what about the knowledge devs have gathered for decades. will the new way of doing things produce a more efficient and better running application ?

pjmlp seems to be an expert in a lot of this stuff but I'll throw in one other perspective: if you need to write a native app on Windows, yes, UWP is the way to go, certainly over MVC, WinForms and WPF. But it is tied to Windows...

I doubt the performance improvements are significantly different. It's really about portability (Windows Store) and latest Windows features (start menu, menu bar, Cortana, ink, touch, high dpi)

Also, I hear if you do have an exiting WinForms/WPF app, you should be able to upgrade it to UWP.

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#16

Post by userbinator »

sidawson wrote: post #7

First immediate thought: Can you get virus/malware scanners for XBox? Otherwise, it seems an immediate easy target for a new botnet.

Upon consideration, I'd consider the existence of viruses/malware for a platform is actually a good thing, as it's a sign of openness. If there isn't, it's most likely because there is a central authority deciding what you can and cannot do on the platform.

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#17

Post by userbinator »

Maarten88 wrote: post #9

Operation successful, patient dead... It's kind of tragic that much of this effort may never pay off: in the process of merging platforms and restructuring API's (that started with Vista and is still going) Microsoft lost the connection to many of its developers, who went to build Web, iOS and Android apps. WPF, Silverlight, WinRT, XAML, UWP: there were too many changes, rewrites and deprecations. Windows Phone, bril…

As a long-time Win32 programmer (over a decade), I can safely say that the vast majority of existing applications still remain (for the time being) forward-compatible.

Here's some examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOj-bAZBhnE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfn4M5DXTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqFWuNmWbHk

The reasons people hold off on "upgrading" Windows versions is not mainly because of compatibility, but other factors like unwanted UI changes and removed features, and particularly with Windows 10, the increased data-collection intrusiveness and "we own your machine" attitude:

http://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-p...

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#18

Post by sidawson »

thebigshane wrote: post #10
sidawson wrote: post #7

First immediate thought: Can you get virus/malware scanners for XBox? Otherwise, it seems an immediate easy target for a new botnet.

Windows has had a sufficient built-in virus/malware scanner for a while now. But, I agree, it's now as easy of a target as other Windows 10 machines out there.

I agree. MS's recent anti-malware offerings are definitely up there. Their efforts in the area have been paying off.

The major issue is identical executables being operable across platforms makes for much easier transmissability. Eg, how many people put their XBoxes and Windows machines on the same home network? I'd posit a majority of people who own both platforms, simply for simplicity's sake.

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#19

Post by userbinator »

pjmlp wrote: post #3
wornohaulus wrote: post #2

What are the substantial benefits of getting onboard the UWP rain ? Will the platform code work faster.. will the deployment be faster ? what about the knowledge devs have gathered for decades. will the new way of doing things produce a more efficient and better running application ?

For long time Windows developers like myself, the underlying model of WinRT is what the original .NET was supposed to be. It was called Ext-OS and based on an improved COM API, called COM+ Runtime. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dsyme/2012/07/05/more-c-net... So with C++/CX and .NET Native built on top of WinRT, Microsoft has gone full circle back to the original idea. Personally I enjoy developing UWP (started rig…

I'm a "long time Windows developer" and personally my opinion seems like the exact opposite: I enjoy pure native Win32. All that new stuff never interested me much, and felt like too much added complexity and learning curve for little gain. MFC looked more like a bloated make-work scheme, I was very much not impressed when I tried playing around with .NET for the first time, and I can still discern clearly which apps I need to use daily are native and which are using .NET, simply by how long trivial operations take and how much memory they consume. It's better than Java, although that's not saying much...

Re: How Windows Everywhere finally happened

#20

Post by yuhong »

userbinator wrote: post #17
Maarten88 wrote: post #9

Operation successful, patient dead... It's kind of tragic that much of this effort may never pay off: in the process of merging platforms and restructuring API's (that started with Vista and is still going) Microsoft lost the connection to many of its developers, who went to build Web, iOS and Android apps. WPF, Silverlight, WinRT, XAML, UWP: there were too many changes, rewrites and deprecations. Windows Phone, bril…

As a long-time Win32 programmer (over a decade), I can safely say that the vast majority of existing applications still remain (for the time being) forward-compatible. Here's some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOj-bAZBhnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfn4M5DXTE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqFWuNmWbHk The reasons people hold off on "upgrading" Windows versions is not mainly because of compatibility…

Yes, the name "Windows as a service" was coined for a reason.
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