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CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

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41–50 of 189 posts

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#41

Is it Oracle's position that all implementations of the Java APIs (or partial implementations) are illegal, unless it's specifically allowed by Oracle? That sounds ludicrous. What about unit testing libraries, for example?

This also means that Wine, GNUstep, FreeDOS, etc., are illegal, right?

Yes, it would seem logical to me.

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#43
post #3

Oooooo shit. Isn't this phrase horrible? Don't get me wrong, I think suing over checkRange is ludicrous... but doesn't saying "declaring code isn't code" terrible? He comes across as he's trying to avoid the issue by playing with words. Of course declaring code is code. The clue is in the name, "declaring CODE".

> Of course declaring code is code. The clue is in the name, "declaring CODE".

This doesn't follow, sometimes language does unexpected things. E.g. a dwarf planet isn't a planet.

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#44
post #3

Oooooo shit. Isn't this phrase horrible? Don't get me wrong, I think suing over checkRange is ludicrous... but doesn't saying "declaring code isn't code" terrible? He comes across as he's trying to avoid the issue by playing with words. Of course declaring code is code. The clue is in the name, "declaring CODE".

Yeah, same thought here. I understand what he meant, and pretty much everybody on HN understands it.. but to a (potentially) non-technical juror, that just does not sound good at all. I hope that one gaffe doesn't cost Google the case.

If the juror can't understand the distinction between declaration and implementation, then he is not fit for this particular case. Isn't it smart of him to make that point explicit?

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that terrible: > "Declaring the title of a book is not writing a book" I think you can make a reasonable analogy there.

Writing an outline of a book is more analogous.

that would imply they plagiarized code...

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#48
I am curious about the implications of this lawsuit for Free SW. Claiming copyright over the Java API is not that far from claiming copyright over a C header, and most projects do just that.

On the one hand, RMS has said that "just using structure definitions, typedefs, enumeration constants, macros with simple bodies, etc., is NOT enough to make a derivative work. It would take a substantial amount of code (coming from inline functions or macros with substantial bodies) to do that".

On the other, I imagine that somebody could get in trouble for e.g. copying the files under linux/include and providing a proprietary implementation underneath (unlikely scenario, you get the point).

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#49
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means header files compile to nothing, they do not end up as actual computer instructions. They only serve to help programs call the actual implementations (which he'll see as the real code) correctly.

I'm not sure if this interpretation of his words is what he meant to say. I'd argue that code that "compiles to nothing" can be protected by copyright, too, even if it is not distributed to customers. E.g., extensive documentation inside comments in the source files is definitely copyrighted. Complex build rules might be copyrightable, too, although they definitely end up in the distributed application. Therefore, it…

Google is trying to make the case that interfaces aren't 'code' here. That's the entire case here, right?

Re: CEO Larry Page defends Google on the stand: “Declaring code is not code”

#50
Oracle will likely win on technical grounds regarding APIs but only because the law is unsuited to software. It's whether a judge should overrule it on principle of not patent trolling as it's against the public good.

It's the fact they bought Sun with the intention of suing Google in order to profit from Android's success. If it was Sun suing it would different.

After Elon Musk pledged that other car manufacturers could use Tesla's patents is Larry Ellison going to wait until all cars are electric and Tesla is a minor player before buying them out and immediately turning around and suing the entire industry?

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