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The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

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Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#211

Post by mindslight »

Mendenhall wrote: post #23

In my personal experience what slows it all down the most is the actual people flying. Every time I fly I see countless people wearing tons of metal/jewelry/belts/whatever that they have to take off, often not till they are told to do so, the laptap is tucked far away until last moment. They still carry all sorts of lotions and liquids on for some unknown reason. When they then exit the scan they clog up the line by…

> When they then exit the scan they clog up the line by standing right there trying to put everything back on or away

Um, excuse me? If I've just been made to disassemble my person and be less secure, you can damn well bet I am going to take my time reassembling myself and making sure I have everything back in its rightful place before proceeding. I'd recommend everybody do the same, even if that means holding your ground if the goons start trying to assault you into moving forward.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#212

Post by makecheck »

zer00eyz wrote: post #2

In the world we live in there is one surefire way to get rid of the TSA: Stop flying. Sad to say but money is a big motivator, and until the airlines get the message that we don't want to deal with this shit, they aren't going to really push for actual change.

Boycotts won’t help because not enough people ever participate. If any airline starts to suffer, it will be bought out by another airline.

And if by chance a significant number of people did stop flying, the TSA would just expand into whatever people are using (train stations; bus stops; or heck, maybe the TSA starts building their own “checkpoints” on highways — you know, to ensure “transportation security”).

Competition can also be a good motivator. If you want to fix the TSA, cut their responsibilities in half at a particular airport and assign the other half to some startup that offers the same services. Then you come up with a few common-sense ways to measure how good they’re doing, and you pit them against each other. May the most efficient, cost-effective and customer-satisfying organization win.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#213

Post by jonnathanson »

fluxquanta wrote: post #175
jonnathanson wrote: post #89

The article is exactly right about what needs to be done, and who needs to do it: the airports themselves. No chance any elected official is going to scale back the TSA's screening creep at this point. The political risks of looking "soft on terrorism" are just too high. Imagine being a politician responsible for a TSA rollback, and then, by dumb luck, a terrorist attack succeeds a short while later. There may be zer…

>This is why it's in the hands of airports to push for any particular change. They're not running for office. They rely on federal funding for new infrastructure, which brings more air traffic, which brings more gate fees, which results in more money for those running the airport.

Totally fair, but any threat of fund withholding there is far less direct.

It also seems unlikely. If the feds withhold infrastructural funding out of spite for X, Y, or Z airports, they will cause a lot of collateral economic damage. Commercial airline passengers are just one of the many types of traffic that airports service every day. There's also stuff like FedEx, UPS, DHL, and all of the companies who rely on them for shipping, fulfillment, and logistics. That rabbit hole runs deep.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#214

Post by jrjarrett »

lisper wrote: post #58
rhino369 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to see how they got the 95% failure rate. If the TSA was sneaking in actual bombs that could bring down airplanes, that is a horrific. But if they were testing someone bringing in a nail clipper with a 1 inch blade tucked into it, a plastic gun, a disassembled "bomb" with no explosive residue, etc, then it's not that bad. The fact that there have been attempts to blow up airplanes, and they all invo…

> If you could just walk onto a plane with a gun, people would do it again. No, they wouldn't. In the 70's the unwritten rule was: you hijack the plane, land it, make your demands, get your TV time, and then you surrender (or get away) but no one gets hurt. It is only because of that unwritten rule that you could get away with it because everyone assumed that the best route to survival was to cooperate with the hijac…

...except in Brussels. They did it there.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#215

Post by alanwatts »

alanwatts wrote: post #188
dragontamer wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Profit! The Department of Homeland Security (of which the TSA is a part of) has a budget and its priorities are set in Congress. There is no "profit" motive here. The US is throwing money at this problem, and money that only creates inconveniences for us.

The 2nd US Secretary of Homeland Security and co-author of the Patriot Act is the founder of a lobbying front for the the manufacturers of the body scanners. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff

Apologies to all for posting this 5 times. Each time I hit reply it was giving me an error.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#216

Post by owie829 »

tzs wrote: post #126
cloudjacker wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I arrive at the airport in a Lyft. I walk up to the security checkpoint checkpoint, where I show the agent my phone. They see my boarding pass with the green checkmark and send me to the empty TSA Pre line. I walk through the metal detector with no adjustments to my attire. I am at the gate in 5 minutes. I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train rid…

> I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train ride, compared to airport, checkpoints and boarding time, possibly waiting on the runway, and air time. Trains have their delays, too, such as long waits on passing sidings to clear the way for freight trains. Much of Amtrak's routes (72% by mileage) are on freight company owned rails that Amtrak pays for…

Amtrak gets priority when it is on time. The problem is that Amtrak is never on time. Don't blame the freight companies for that.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#217

Post by avn2109 »

schoen wrote: post #182
avn2109 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those problems you mention are real, but they're not the main problem. The real problem with the TSA is that it's explicitly unconstitutional, since the 4th amendment explicitly prohibits search and seizure without a warrant. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon…

> In Davis and its progeny, we have established a general reasonableness test for airport screenings. “An airport screening search is reasonable if: (1) it is no more extensive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives; (2) it is confined in good faith to that purpose; and (3) passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly.” Torbet , 298 F.3d at 1089 (citatio…

These precedents are interesting, thanks for bringing them up.

This gives me an idea for a constituency that might have standing to challenge Davis: Active-duty members of the military flying commercial, on orders, to remote locations accessible solely by air, who explicitly cannot "...avoid the search by electing not to fly" by orders of the same government that is searching them.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#218

Post by progressive_dad »

geophile wrote: post #183
a3n wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the person in the Pre line got to keep their shoes on!

I also get to keep my shoes on while I drive.

I'm often asked to remove my shoes before intercourse, but I found out you can opt out of both this AND the cavity search.

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#219

Post by logfromblammo »

Mendenhall wrote: post #184
logfromblammo wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame the victims. You might as well say it's their fault because they didn't memorize the Gettysburg Address prior to arriving at the airport. What does reciting the Gettysburg Address have to do with airline security? About as much as making someone take out their nose and navel rings in the security line, and confiscating their hand lotion.

Oh I think the TSA is in inefficient and somewhat laughable, but I don't consider someone a victim who is not prepared to get on a plane and wastes everyone time. I consider that just rude. If someone gets their lotion confiscated, I consider them part of the problem that slows everyone down. Edit to include I also think the TSA is making things slower on "purpose" but that's a whole other topic.

Prepared to get on a plane is, in my view, to be dressed appropriately for a public venue, carrying an appropriate size and quantity of hand-carried baggage, with a paid ticket, complete travel itinerary, and valid airline boarding pass.

It is not the traveler's concern whether the TSA finds it more burdensome to screen someone wearing polished, straight-laced oxfords than someone wearing slipshod flip-flops. The traveler is not wasting anybody's time. The TSA that cannot process an unprepared, ignorant, yet cooperative traveler as quickly or as easily as a million-mile air travel expert is actually the party wasting everybody's time.

Imagine for a moment that someone sets out to intentionally slow down the screening queue. Whose fault is it if he is easily able to do so? The people that established the operating procedures for the screening are responsible. On a highway, the slow car is passed, using a different lane. On a computer, the processor hog may be interrupted so that other processes and threads may still execute. Unfortunately, as you suspect, the TSA has a motive for keeping the lines slow. Slow lines may lead to bigger budgets, as they complain about being "resource constrained".

Perhaps you are making it more convenient for yourself by transferring your irritation to those who are not able to retaliate against your visible annoyance, by abusing their authority to perform additional unnecessary screenings the instant you reach the head of the queue? Stop blaming the victims!

Re: The TSA is a waste of money that doesn't save lives and might actually cost them

#220

Post by bogomipz »

cloudjacker wrote: post #79
two2two wrote: post #29

TSA is the number one reason why I don't fly and drive instead. From my POV most of the world's industries have progressed positively, but not air travel. I took a train a couple of years ago and it was a beautiful example of old merging with new. Walking through an antique of a train station, iPhone in hand, with my digital ticket ready to board; so easy and pleasant. At that point I realized that air travel is by f…

I arrive at the airport in a Lyft. I walk up to the security checkpoint checkpoint, where I show the agent my phone. They see my boarding pass with the green checkmark and send me to the empty TSA Pre line. I walk through the metal detector with no adjustments to my attire. I am at the gate in 5 minutes. I like how trains basically let you show up last minute, and a 3 hour train ride actually means a 3 hour train rid…

Oh wow and each of those things are a premium service that costs money. There are many people who can not afford those, oh but tough crap to them right? How about all the people not in the same income bracket as you? I guess that's their fault in your opinion? That is just elitist.
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