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The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

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Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#21

Post by aristoxenus »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #6
aristoxenus wrote: post #3

As fascinating as I find the work Chris is doing and writing about over at the OkCupid blog, I've been pretty disappointed by his willingness to use all that data to "objectify" in demeaning ways (calling people ranked low in his attractiveness scales "hideous", the poor-black-women thing, etc). Thanks, Coates, for the welcome critique.

If "hideous" applies to anyone, shouldn't it apply to people who get the lowest grades on dating sites? Or should he just assume that the truly hideous won't even bother?

I think it takes a certain lack of humanity to use the word "hideous" to describe anybody's born appearance.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#22

Post by pw0ncakes »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #16
pw0ncakes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I can't speak from any racial perspective than that of a white man, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to date a woman who joined a whites-only dating site, and most of the women I've dated or been interested in dating haven't been white anyway.

Why is that? Would you refuse to date a Jewish woman who had signed up on Jdate? (Assume you met her outside of Jdate.)

I'm not Jewish, so her willingness to date me would indicate that she's fairly open-minded.

However, I think it's different when it's a "white people only" site because "white" isn't really an ethnicity or a single culture, so a person who would sign up for such a site is indicating an interest in skin color/race on its own, which is a bit crass. I don't have a problem with someone who is Jewish who wants to date only people who grew up in the same tradition (although I'm obviously not a match for her). For contrast, "white" isn't a culture or ethnicity; it's just a skin color. I have nothing in common with most people who would be identified as "white".

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#23

Post by yummyfajitas »

There is another explanation of OkCupid's conclusions which is not discussed in that blog. The author of the blog even censored a comment pointing this fact out.

39% of black women are obese, compared to 23% of white women. Men prefer to date non-obese women.

http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/content.aspx?ID=6456

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#24

Post by lsb »

petercooper wrote: post #7

That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. [..] Disagree. The reason there are no popular whit…

It is to Morgan Freeman, as he explained to Mike Wallace:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1131418n

"You're going to relegate my history to a month? What about White History Month? Black History is American History. I'm going to stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man."

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#25

Post by byrneseyeview »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #22
byrneseyeview wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? Would you refuse to date a Jewish woman who had signed up on Jdate? (Assume you met her outside of Jdate.)

I'm not Jewish, so her willingness to date me would indicate that she's fairly open-minded. However, I think it's different when it's a "white people only" site because "white" isn't really an ethnicity or a single culture, so a person who would sign up for such a site is indicating an interest in skin color/race on its own, which is a bit crass. I don't have a problem with someone who is Jewish who wants to date onl…

I guess we can keep on refining this. I know secular Jews who were raised by secular parents, who have jdate profiles.

What if, e.g., you're Norwegian and she's Polish, and she joins PoleDate.com. She obviously wants to date white people, but she's also open-minded enough to date a strange Northern barbarian.

If people who identify as various shades of not-white all have something in common, it would be unlikely for people who identify as white not to. Stuffwhitepeoplelike isn't Stuffblackpeopleandhispanicpeopleandasiansdontlike.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#26

Post by byrneseyeview »

aristoxenus wrote: post #21
byrneseyeview wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "hideous" applies to anyone, shouldn't it apply to people who get the lowest grades on dating sites? Or should he just assume that the truly hideous won't even bother?

I think it takes a certain lack of humanity to use the word "hideous" to describe anybody's born appearance.

Is that because it's not nice, or it's not accurate?

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#27

Post by petercooper »

henrikschroder wrote: post #15
petercooper wrote: post #7

That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. [..] Disagree. The reason there are no popular whit…

Why should it be hideous? Let me try an analogy. Discrimination based on sexual orientation is illegal in a lot of places, and seen as equally bad as discrimination based on race. But there are plenty of dating sites that are exclusively targeted to gay men or lesbian women. If you think that race segregating dating sites are bad, then what are dating sites that segregate on sexual orientation? Are they also bad? But…

First, if race-specific dating sites aren't offensive to you (and to me, they ARE) then why not race-specific bars? Or race-specific public transport?

But there are plenty of dating sites that are exclusively targeted to gay men or lesbian women. If you think that race segregating dating sites are bad, then what are dating sites that segregate on sexual orientation? Are they also bad?

No, because dating is entirely about sexual orientation. Straight men date straight women. Gay men date gay men. And so on. When it comes to race, however, that argument doesn't hold up.

There's no biological reason for a straight man to date a gay man. There's also no biological reason, however, for a straight white man to avoid non-white women. If one has a personal preference, that's OK to exercise passively, but holing yourself up in a segregated community is rather anachronistic.

If there should be racially based dating sites, should there be bars/leisure facilities/supermarkets for white/black people to hang out who don't like being in the company of people of other races? My opinion is "hell no", but if you disagree, well that's your opinion.

(I'm sure people have dated folks with incompatible sexual preferences in the past, but that's pretty much incompatible with the whole idea of dating.)

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#28

Post by nkurz »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #22
byrneseyeview wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? Would you refuse to date a Jewish woman who had signed up on Jdate? (Assume you met her outside of Jdate.)

I'm not Jewish, so her willingness to date me would indicate that she's fairly open-minded. However, I think it's different when it's a "white people only" site because "white" isn't really an ethnicity or a single culture, so a person who would sign up for such a site is indicating an interest in skin color/race on its own, which is a bit crass. I don't have a problem with someone who is Jewish who wants to date onl…

Since we're vaguely on the topic of 'identity', and hopefully deeply enough in a thread not to be in anyone else's way, I'll toss in an offtopic reaction to 'pw0ncakes'.

In this thread and others, your comments are solid and intelligent. I want to vote them up. But your username throws me: it's probably intended as parody, but for me it still signifies irreverent 'script-kiddie', whether ironic or not.

So while you're welcome to choose your own online identity, and while other people might be better able to disassociate your content from your username, you might want to consider whether your chosen name sends the message you want to be sending.

If it already does, well, more power to you! Apologies for the impropriety.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#29

Post by randallsquared »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #25
pw0ncakes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not Jewish, so her willingness to date me would indicate that she's fairly open-minded. However, I think it's different when it's a "white people only" site because "white" isn't really an ethnicity or a single culture, so a person who would sign up for such a site is indicating an interest in skin color/race on its own, which is a bit crass. I don't have a problem with someone who is Jewish who wants to date onl…

I guess we can keep on refining this. I know secular Jews who were raised by secular parents, who have jdate profiles. What if, e.g., you're Norwegian and she's Polish, and she joins PoleDate.com. She obviously wants to date white people, but she's also open-minded enough to date a strange Northern barbarian. If people who identify as various shades of not-white all have something in common, it would be unlikely for…

Er, stuffwhitepeoplelike is supposed to be funny precisely because there is no stereotype of what white people really like, isn't it?

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#30

Post by natrius »

lsb wrote: post #24
petercooper wrote: post #7

That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. [..] Disagree. The reason there are no popular whit…

It is to Morgan Freeman, as he explained to Mike Wallace: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1131418n "You're going to relegate my history to a month? What about White History Month? Black History is American History. I'm going to stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man."

That makes sense in the context of history, but not in the broader scope of our social interactions. As long as outward appearances are significantly predictive of one's culture, humans aren't going to just disregard that predictive value unless they're making an effort to do so.

I doubt that there are many people who are purely racist and judge people solely on their skin color. However, when you combine skin color with other outward indicators of class, you have a fairly valuable predictor of behavior.

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