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The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

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Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#3
As fascinating as I find the work Chris is doing and writing about over at the OkCupid blog, I've been pretty disappointed by his willingness to use all that data to "objectify" in demeaning ways (calling people ranked low in his attractiveness scales "hideous", the poor-black-women thing, etc). Thanks, Coates, for the welcome critique.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#4
Please start throwing rocks at me, but I can also see a much simpler explanation behind the numbers than those constructed in the post.

Just don't throw rocks at OkCupid, it's their job to analyze the numbers and match all those people in the best way they can. It's a nice bonus for everyone who is still on the dating scene (or in the dating website business) that OkCupid actually publishes what they find.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#5
This isn't explicit anywhere, but OkCupid is all about subgroups. For many people, there is an equal number of guys and girls in each sub-group, so message response rates are consistent and people are generally happy.

It seems like, for black girls, that there is not an equal subgroup; there aren't enough guys that find them interesting for all of them. So the girls desperately respond to every message, and the guys don't seem interested -- there is a large supply of girls they like, and a small supply of guys. Furthermore, this subgroup is easy to measure, because your gender and your race are in your profile. It is easy to count the number of messages that black girls write, because the database has an "is black" field in addition to a "number of messages written" field.

But... I think there are other subgroups that don't do too well on OkCupid like the, "hi u ar so hawt" group of guys. There just aren't many women on the site that like that, but there are a ton of guys like that. So OkCupid ends up being pretty bad for these guys. They send messages (if you can call them that) like crazy, but they never get any responses. This is harder to quantify, though, because there is no "sends thoughtless messages to anything that seems female" field in the database. Buy it's exactly the same effect; one group is in high supply, and the thing that group wants is in low supply. So the group in high supply gets a lot of rejected messages.

It's not about race, it's about supply and demand.

(And oh yeah, this is all from the perspective of a straight guy. I imagine the dynamics in the gay/lesbian communities are a little different, since in theory, everyone in the pool is equally attracted to everyone else.)

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#6

As fascinating as I find the work Chris is doing and writing about over at the OkCupid blog, I've been pretty disappointed by his willingness to use all that data to "objectify" in demeaning ways (calling people ranked low in his attractiveness scales "hideous", the poor-black-women thing, etc). Thanks, Coates, for the welcome critique.

If "hideous" applies to anyone, shouldn't it apply to people who get the lowest grades on dating sites? Or should he just assume that the truly hideous won't even bother?

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#7
That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. [..]

Disagree. The reason there are no popular white-focused dating sites is because they would be hounded or sued out of business! It's "racist" for white people to congregate on a race-dependent basis, but acceptable for people of other races. I guess it's our payback for our ancestors being idiots in the distant past.

That said, I think racial segregation is a "problem" (though it's not always "racist", per se). The existence of dating sites exclusively for certain races is the issue here.

We need to go one way or the other. We ignore race and discourage its use as a demographic tool, or we celebrate it and allow people to silo as they see fit. Our society seems to have mostly chosen to ignore race and consider it a non-issue, so "Blacksinglesconnection" or "EliteNoire" (Are you shitting me? This really exists?) should be as distasteful to our society as a hypothetical "Whitesinglesconnection" would be.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#8
post #5

This isn't explicit anywhere, but OkCupid is all about subgroups. For many people, there is an equal number of guys and girls in each sub-group, so message response rates are consistent and people are generally happy. It seems like, for black girls, that there is not an equal subgroup; there aren't enough guys that find them interesting for all of them. So the girls desperately respond to every message, and the guys…

I'm sure you don't mean to do so, but you shouldn't compare black women to "u r so hawt" guys. Very different categories, and very different dating problems. The moron can stop being a moron and learn how to write decent messages. In addition, his disadvantage is a shortcoming that sends a strong signal about his worthiness for a relationship. The black woman's disadvantage comes from her being black, which will never change and which is a signal of anything other than her skin having melanin.

It's not just OkCupid. Black women face a systematic disadvantage in the dating scene, even now and even among educated people. I'm not saying that it's so severe as to make it impossible for a black woman to find a decent partner, but the disadvantage exists and it's a lot more common for an attractive black woman to have long single spells. I know a couple of beautiful, smart, incredible black women in their mid-20s who haven't even kissed a guy, much less been in a relationship. Asian men face a disadvantage of a different character that is arguably as bad. Anyone who can't see this is either living in delusion or sheltered.

Re: The Black Damsel In Dating Distress: A Response to OkCupid's Conclusions

#9

That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. [..] Disagree. The reason there are no popular whit…

When your race makes up 13% of the larger population, the economics for a niche dating site will work out. At 75%, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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