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A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#241

Post by WayneBro »

matwood wrote: post #157
467568985476 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go into more detail. Start with the evidence.

But the evidence is secret! :)

I think this statement is hilarious. You tried to make fun of conspiracy theorists, but I have never heard a conspiracy theorist say that they "have evidence, but it's secret".

The reason it's funny to me is because the only time I ever hear bout "secret evidence" is when I read about secret courts and prisons that the US government runs, such as the US Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. (LOL! It's so funny that people around the world can be prosecuted, killed and tortured because of secret evidence, isn't it?)

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#242

Post by april1stislame »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #239
april1stislame wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Hacker news seems to do a pretty good job of at least up voting the majority thoughts... And therein lies the problem. Echo chambers are only good at making you wish to be deaf, if even...

Only if you treat downvotes as bad. My own comments on this thread have received a fair number of both upvotes and downvotes. I consider when that happens (assuming I haven't been overly antagonistic, which I don't think I have been) that I've hit a raw nerve. I could be wrong, but alternatively I could've said something someone isn't willing to hear. That can be useful feedback in its own right (though I prefer the…

Yes, you described the problem very well. Nice to see you are aware of contributing to it.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#243

Post by [deleted] »

brudgers wrote: post #234
beeboop wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I comment when knowingly being uninformed because the resulting discussion is what helps me understand the topic better. The result of this, looking back on my comment history, is that I can come across as a bit of an asshole who's often wrong. That is why anonymity is important to me online, because my posting here is not really indicative of my real world behavior. It's a safe place to challenge ideas and opinions,…

Commenting to learn is orthogonal to doing so in a way that "can come across as a bit of an asshole". The first tends to make Hacker News better. The second more than negates any benefit.

[deleted]

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#244

Post by nxzero »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #239
april1stislame wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Hacker news seems to do a pretty good job of at least up voting the majority thoughts... And therein lies the problem. Echo chambers are only good at making you wish to be deaf, if even...

Only if you treat downvotes as bad. My own comments on this thread have received a fair number of both upvotes and downvotes. I consider when that happens (assuming I haven't been overly antagonistic, which I don't think I have been) that I've hit a raw nerve. I could be wrong, but alternatively I could've said something someone isn't willing to hear. That can be useful feedback in its own right (though I prefer the…

Maybe it's me, but it's rare that my comments get more that 10 votes (up/down) - and as such, I don't make anything of votes to my comments; statistical significance, poor sample, puppet accounts, etc.

What I do make something of is meaningful responses to my comments.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#245

Post by vehementi »

beeboop wrote: post #228
c2the3rd wrote: post #207

I would like to thank all the people who had a comment on this article, but did not post it. Truly, you improve the community with your silence. I'm aware of my own hypocrisy on this point, but logical consistency would prevent this sentiment from ever being expressed. As it is, perhaps 5% of these comments know anything about what they are talking about. One of the biggest intellectual failings of the sort that freq…

I comment when knowingly being uninformed because the resulting discussion is what helps me understand the topic better. The result of this, looking back on my comment history, is that I can come across as a bit of an asshole who's often wrong. That is why anonymity is important to me online, because my posting here is not really indicative of my real world behavior. It's a safe place to challenge ideas and opinions,…

Have you considered the harm you cause by posting with confidence when you are secretly aware of your own ignorance? The behavior of the average human is to take confident-sounding things as truth, even if they consciously try not to. You might be coming off as an asshole due to the harm you're causing like this, and could reframe your posts as asking for more info and not just saying random things to get a response.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#246

Post by ZenoArrow »

toyg wrote: post #236
ZenoArrow wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "A lot of those people came from disadvantaged backgrounds where army careers are the only ticket out of poverty." They are not the only ticket out of poverty, speaking broadly these people have choices. What is happening is that the military provides, for some people, an attractive way to get out of poverty, because it comes along with a certain level of prestige. Change the level of prestige and you change the in…

> Change the level of prestige and you change the influx of new recruits. Who can change the level of prestige? Upper and middle classes. Why would they do that, when the system works just fine for them? Nobody is legally coerced, and still cannon fodder is overwhelmingly provided by the "right" people. From a certain perspective, it's a beautiful system.

> "Who can change the level of prestige?"

We all can, and we can start by resisting the narrative to refer to those involved in preemptive war as 'heroes'. There's nothing heroic about playing the role of the aggressor.

Furthermore, we need to find a way to better engage with those who have taken part in war so that we can learn from their experiences. The more we can see war for what it is, the less likely we'll be so casual about it continuing.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#247

Post by Lerumo »

Find it funny that they label Mandela a communist while the apartheid government owned all important sectors of the economy eg telkom (telecommunications), eskom (electricity), amscor n denel (weapons), sabc (radio and tv broadcasting), spoornet (rails and ports) acsa (airports) just to list a few. Apartheid was basically socialism for white people and brutal facism africans.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#249

Post by calgoo »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #166
cm2187 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in Palestine and Israel where there is no oil?

Yes, even there, as the violence is being fueled by other countries in the region with large ties to oil. It is not the only thing that needs to change in that region (a proper Palestinian state that could control its own borders would also be a great step in the right direction), but it's something that the average person has some control over, so instead of sitting on our hands and watching the situation get worse…

Without Israel expanding their borders all the time? That would be a nice thing for once. Second thing to do: Stop supporting Saudi Arabia and Israel, which both empowers the instability of the reason.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#250

Post by ZenoArrow »

nxzero wrote: post #244
ZenoArrow wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you treat downvotes as bad. My own comments on this thread have received a fair number of both upvotes and downvotes. I consider when that happens (assuming I haven't been overly antagonistic, which I don't think I have been) that I've hit a raw nerve. I could be wrong, but alternatively I could've said something someone isn't willing to hear. That can be useful feedback in its own right (though I prefer the…

Maybe it's me, but it's rare that my comments get more that 10 votes (up/down) - and as such, I don't make anything of votes to my comments; statistical significance, poor sample, puppet accounts, etc. What I do make something of is meaningful responses to my comments.

Sure, such feedback is rare, it does require significant feedback in both directions, it doesn't work with single upvote/downvote swings.

It's also very obvious when you've said something that annoys one individual as you can get a string of downvotes in quick succession across multiple comments. Such feedback is easy to spot and see as childish, so I enjoy it for what it is instead.

That said, I much prefer comments, even those that disagree with me.

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