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“Facebook has destroyed the open web”

ibtimes.co.uk

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Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#71

Post by Cenk »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #55
5ilv3r wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hyperlinks still work." I observe that this is increasingly no longer true. Links no longer show you when you have visited them. Chains of 301s are common. Tracking links are now the norm. The link text almost never is where you are actually going. Pages automatically redirect you based on a ton of probed information (mobile, desktop, tablet, logged in to G+, logged into facebook, etc), and even normal browser short…

There any good Chrome extensions out there that'll strip all of the tracking data from URLs as you browse?

I use DirectLinks by Canisbos (http://canisbos.com/directlinks). It strips the JS from Google and Facebook links and takes me directly to the page. Added bonus: you can copy a link on a Google search result and it will actually copy the link.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#72

Post by vinceguidry »

blub wrote: post #67
vinceguidry wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. That's not an issue with Facebook, it's the natural consequence of being popular. Things are popular because the public likes them. You can't say that something being powerful because the public made them powerful is undemocratic. Either you're giving the public what they want or you're not. Dethroning…

There is no such thing as a public institution under private management. Facebook is a corporate entity with control over a large part of the internet and no accountability towards their user base. When a private institution has so much power there need to be rules put in place that make sure they won't abuse that power to the detriment of everyone else. Democracy is about people, not the rights of corporations. Your…

If you'd read more than "a little bit" of history, you'd be able to see these things in proper perspective.

Multinational corporations are inherently more democratic, more public, than governments. A government derives its capacity to operate from violence, you are forced to pay taxes.

A corporation has to be accountable to a marketplace, and must operate within the law of countries it operates in. Markets are ultimately more powerful than governments, that's why authoritarians want to tell people what they can sell to whom and how. Markets provide the people with ways to get things that don't come from the government, that's how they undermine authority.

I stand by my statement that Facebook is a public institution. It's publicly traded, you can buy voting shares and get a say in how the company is run. Of course Facebook is accountable to its user base, that's ultimately where they get all their revenue from. Facebook is more accountable than democratic governments are, you can't choose to not pay your taxes. Also, what is the practical difference between public and private management?

Manipulating public opinion is ridiculously hard and only the most hardcore authoritarian states are capable of doing so effectively. Even then it's a cat and mouse game, the truth has ways of getting out.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#73

Post by rawTruthHurts »

smadge wrote: post #70
drivingmenuts wrote: post #12

Facebook hasn't destroyed the web - it's still there and functioning fine. Hyperlinks still work. What FB has done is made it easier for the lazy to connect with and stay within their own interest groups. FB has made it easy for people to ignore negative information with tons of cat pictures (I am as guilty as anyone for that) and cheerful little meaningless quotes. It's made it easier to post misinformation and spre…

"hyperlinks still work" Not on Facebook, which is the whole point. You can paste URLs into Facebook, but they aren't hypertext.

On "the open web", which is mentioned on the point, they still do.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#74

Post by mohsinr »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #56
raddad wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>easier for the lazy to connect with and stay within their own interest groups Facebook reminds me of AOL. People who had AOL had no idea of anything outside of AOL. I had to show many how to get out of AOL and they were astonished there was so much more. If Facebook was an ISP it truly would be the new AOL.

There's always going to be a niche for a service that does what AOL and FB do. FB will be killed by its successor soon - possibly within five years, certainly within 10. Jury's out on whether it will be founded in the US, or whether it will even need a web browser. (I strongly suspect the answer to both questions will be "no.')

There was one, but FB bought it ... WhatsApp (Now FB is using Whatsapp use all phone contacts in your address book stored and use that info to show your friends/people to connect with on FB... FB kept saying to connect with our local XYZ service provider :) as somehow his number was stored in my phone. )

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#75

Post by devishard »

vinceguidry wrote: post #50
devishard wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are still as free as before to make your own websites and share your content the way it was done before Facebook. And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. > But it's the people that are at fault here, they are the ones that let themselves get hoodwinked. Did you really claim that scam victims are to blame when they get scammed, and not th…

> And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. That's not an issue with Facebook, it's the natural consequence of being popular. Things are popular because the public likes them. You can't say that something being powerful because the public made them powerful is undemocratic. Either you're giving the public what they want or you're not. Dethroning…

You're basically saying:

1. Facebook isn't responsible for the bad things they do because people let them do what they're doing.

2. Therefore Facebook isn't bad.

3. Therefore people should keep letting Facebook do what they're doing.

Do you really not see the problem here?

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#76

Post by soylentcola »

jrnichols wrote: post #54
Razengan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The internet (or more specifically, information) was going to get harder to find and navigate anyway, once you turn it loose on a few billion people. That sheds light on a much scarier issue: Google.com has effectively BECOME the internet. How do you find information that isn't indexed by Google? There has to be a better way than just word of mouth, but all other alternatives afforded by current tech will just shif…

> That sheds light on a much scarier issue: Google.com has effectively BECOME the internet. I've noticed this in schools where Google products are used. The kids are now equating Google with the entire internet. They don't know anything about email - they just know Gmail. That's what is kind of scary to me. It's frustrating at home as well because while I am doing my best to educate the kids about technology, they ar…

As a counterargument, even if you use Gmail (or any other email provider) there's nothing to stop you from using another provider and continuing to communicate with any other user via email.

But if you like Google+ more than Facebook for sharing messages, links, and pictures with friends and family, how do you do so if they're all only on Facebook? (Obviously this works either way).

The bit that really disappoints or bugs me is how something like email is still generally interoperable between providers so each individual user can pick whatever provider appeals to them, or even host their own. With closed social networks, you essentially must have an account on a given service in order to use them. If you want to use a different provider due to personal preference or some feature offered by one and not another, you either have to convince all of your contacts to switch over or accept that it's not happening.

At least with AOL email or whatever you could start using Yahoo or Hotmail or Gmail and continue to send messages to your mom and your boss and your doctor's office even if they stubbornly clung to AOL. Today, when better social networking services and applications come out, you can try them out but (as Google+ showed) they become pretty sparse when a majority of users are happy to stay with what they know and there's no way you'll get most to consider using a different service.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#77

Post by drivingmenuts »

blub wrote: post #68
drivingmenuts wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? They aren't preventing you from going outside the service to find your own information. FB's policies dictate how you interact with FB, but you don't have to interact with FB at all, if you choose not to.

Once a platform becomes big enough, it doesn't matter what YOU can do if everyone else is on that platform. Whether YOU want to or not, your friends and family are probably on Facebook and you probably have to use gmail and WhatsApp to talk to them. You argument is flat out wrong.

Two words: Richard Stallman. He uses no social service that I'm aware of, a command line email program and downloads web pages for later viewing (I do none of those things, btw).

YOU choose how you interact with the rest of the world. You may have those choices thrust in your face, but ultimately, it's up to you to decide.

Unless your IP and DNS are somehow restricted by your ISP, then you have access to all the tools you will need. If they are, there's probably little I can do to help you.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#78

Post by endemic »

Cenk wrote: post #71
toomuchtodo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There any good Chrome extensions out there that'll strip all of the tracking data from URLs as you browse?

I use DirectLinks by Canisbos ( http://canisbos.com/directlinks ). It strips the JS from Google and Facebook links and takes me directly to the page. Added bonus: you can copy a link on a Google search result and it will actually copy the link.

Sadly ironic: the link to download the extension is tracked. (http://imgur.com/EqZEdhH)

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#80

Post by jeeva »

raddad wrote: post #32
drivingmenuts wrote: post #12

Facebook hasn't destroyed the web - it's still there and functioning fine. Hyperlinks still work. What FB has done is made it easier for the lazy to connect with and stay within their own interest groups. FB has made it easy for people to ignore negative information with tons of cat pictures (I am as guilty as anyone for that) and cheerful little meaningless quotes. It's made it easier to post misinformation and spre…

>easier for the lazy to connect with and stay within their own interest groups Facebook reminds me of AOL. People who had AOL had no idea of anything outside of AOL. I had to show many how to get out of AOL and they were astonished there was so much more. If Facebook was an ISP it truly would be the new AOL.

Weren't they actually providing bandwidth to some small area, with the provision that only Facebook was unmetered?

Seems pretty close...

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