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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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511–520 of 622 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#511

Based on the training I've received - document the incident, talk to the problem employee and remind him that this is not appropriate business behavior, and warn him that a repeat performance will not be tolerated, nor will any attempts at retribution aimed at the company at large, or the female employee. Provide training to the company at large, so they know what is, and what is not acceptable in a business. Get tra…

If you don't know by 21 that calling a woman a milf is degrading and offensive, you're never going to learn. Or at least not in any timeframe where it's valid for this company.

> If you don't know by 21 ... you're never going to learn

Ah, the good old "people's personalities are set in stone by 21" canard. If people were 'never going to learn', then first-wave feminism wouldn't have attracted anyone over 20, for example.

This kind of statement is just an excuse to throw a person under a bus, rather than take the effort to educate them.

> Or at least not in any timeframe where it's valid for this company.

And this is also nonsense. A simple talk can be enough. When I was at university, one of the professors kept asking improper questions of the female students, told to me by a female colleague. I went to my professor and asked what could be done, mentioned what my female colleague said (and stressed that she'd asked not to be named). My professor had a chat with the questionable professor, and the problem disappeared instantly.

It's called 'feedback', and we ask it of our colleagues, our clients, our trainees and trainers. Some people respond really well to feedback. For those that don't, well, at least you tried to improve things rather than kick the can down the road to someone else to deal with.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe this, it seems like you might also believe that it's legally risky to fire a developer who rm's the production environment. After all, they might bring a frivolous lawsuit for no purpose other than to "get a declaratory judgement asserting the facts of the case". (Incidentally: I don't think you can just "sue for declaratory judgement" to enlist judges to settle arbitrary disputes; the judgement has to…

I can't tell whether I am explaining myself poorly or whether you are intentionally misinterpreting. I am not a lawyer, and to my knowledge, neither are you. And that's why I won't go further than this post on this branch of the conversation. As I have noted before, you can apparently post far more often than I can, and I can't keep up with you even when I have any credible knowledge on the topic. I have a somewhat j…

You are arguing with someone whose limited exposure comes from observing secondhand issues. People don't know the difference between what feels right and is legally safe.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#514
post #5

Have you a sexual harassment policy? Did they agree to it when they took the job? Fire that person immediately, it's a clear breach. You need to show your employees that you will support them when something like this happens. This may not be the first time this has happened, might only be the first time that you have heard about it. You need to be proactive in creating a safe work environment and as the founder that…

> Have you a sexual harassment policy? Did they agree to it when they took the job? The United States of America have a sexual harassment policy. They also have theft and murder policies. This isn't a matter of company policy, although covering up these things may be.

> The United States of America have a sexual harassment policy.

If you are talking about the EEOC, then you are only talking about sexual harassment in a workplace with 15 or more employees. Also, it is a concern for the company, not the harasser; while it is antisocial behavior, it isn't a crime.

https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#515
post #466

I don't know if what he was doing was 100% harassment or not but that word makes it at least hard to argue its not. The sad reality is that if a man makes advances towards a woman at work and she isn't interested, it is very possible he will end up being terminated for 'sexual harassment' regardless of what words he uses. Because sexual harassment effectively really boils down to any unwanted advance or even flirtati…

any unwanted advance

it should be about actual harassment

For your sake, I hope you realize that "an unwanted advance" is "actual harassment".

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you translate to human why " the person who reported this to you, who was called a "milf" by the bizdev guy, was on a PIP." is a nightmare scenario. If she is on a PIP (just checked out what that means), she is on a final warning basically?

She's someone you're trying to manage out of the company. Maybe you were harsher on her performance metrics than you needed to be, because in the back of your head, getting rid of someone who complained about sexual harassment was easier than dealing with the problem. Presto: colorable sexual harassment and/or retaliation claim.

How does firing the accused harasser clear the path to PIP firing? It still looks just as much as retaliation for pushing another employee out.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a pretty strong opinion in this thread considering the lack of information we have. In this particular reply, all the 4 things you mentioned are NOT happening in the story. (At least by what we know.) Unwelcome: We don't know if it was unwelcome. She even agreed to move to another communication medium (one which wasn't officially work related.) Overt: It was on their own time, on a completely distinct commun…

She reported it to the founder, presented evidence, and made it clear that the conduct was unwelcome. I'm done at "milf".

And that's a clear moment when the behavior needs to stop, with any future misbehavior grounds for termination

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She explicitly said that she didn't want him (the boss) to do anything about it. So (in her mind), there was nothing she couldn't handle. In addition, the event took place outside of work. You are not responsible for the social/sexual relationship of your employees in their private life.

She explicitly brought it to the boys, which means it is impacting the work environment. You are responsible for the work environment of your employees, including for addressing known low-leveling issues before they become higher-level issues perhaps involving other employees from the ones involved in the earlier issues. Which is why you need to consult an employment lawyer and/or your internal HR expert.

"the boys"?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#519
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad that you exist. From what I get reading these threads on this post, many people with power to fire and hire people know a big glossy nothing about human interaction and psychology. Not even one person gives a thought to whether the guy knows what MILF actually is. Not a single consideration was given to his age, his background, his experience. No chance to make a single mistake. Is it mostly like this in the…

> Not even one person gives a thought to whether the guy knows what MILF actually is. How could he possibly not know what it means? The acronym doesn't work for "Mom I'd Like to Have Coffee With."

It's easy enough to hear slang and not know exactly what the etymology is. That's why Urban Dictionary exists at all, and some people think LOL means "lots of love", or that unicode Winking Tongue emoji means vomitously ill.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#520
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What often happens is that the person who reports harassment is then punished because people no longer want to talk to her. They keep her out of the loop on casual stuff, but lots of professional discussions happen in casual contexts. Over time, she gets iced out for reporting illegal behavior. I think this really depends on your team dynamic, and I wouldn't necessarily be concerned about this point (as valid as it…

Alas, you don't know what will happen until it does happen. It could be as simple as "Wow, Joe reported Bob for sexual harassment, but Bob didn't do anything wrong - I was there. Now I have to be extra-careful around Joe to avoid getting reported myself!" And there you go - Joe is now suffering from "retaliation" and being treated special for speaking up.

I already don't talk to women in tech conferences. Ok I'll use a different axis. The side effect of working hard on promoting women in tech and tracking harassement is prejudices on the innocent men. As a bystander I want to be given the confidence that men who are fired are guilty. I have seen 2 cases of termination of males, I'm the opposite of convinced. I've also seen more women being promoted than men. I've also seen the upgrade of codes of conduct in conferences from "the law" to "the law + we'll beat harassement". There is a lot of prejudice that men are violent, less smart and worse at communication than women. So of course companies and conferences must act on both harassement and increasing women-in-tech; but as a society we must also find a way to prove to males that innocent good-will ones are safe.

As for me, for the moment I'm bitter against the promotion game, I've founded my own company and I'm voting against any progress of women.

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