Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

news.ycombinator.com

391–400 of 622 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aw man, did you have to reply? :) I was about to delete that. It's a stupid comment, attracting undeserved upvotes.

With a karma score over 6000, I'm surprised you haven't already noticed that this forum is completely and utterly lacking in humor. I'm even more surprised that you claim your humorous post is being up voted, instead of massively downvoted, which is exactly what happens any time I try to make a joke around here. (Your upvotes will probably turn into downvotes soon.) It doesn't surprise me at all that the responder to…

HN has always appreciated humor -- just of a very special type. edw519's profile is filled with heavily-upvoted comedy.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#392

I agree with Patrick: you should terminate the employee, immediately. Try to understand how lucky you just got here. Here's a simple tweak to the story you told that creates a nightmare scenario: the person who reported this to you, who was called a "milf" by the bizdev guy, was on a PIP. I disagree with Patrick on the mechanics, subject to one condition: If, like a sane person, you consulted a lawyer before you bega…

Can you translate to human why " the person who reported this to you, who was called a "milf" by the bizdev guy, was on a PIP." is a nightmare scenario. If she is on a PIP (just checked out what that means), she is on a final warning basically?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#393
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a clear difference between "I like your new haircut" which I agree is not sexual harassment and MILF: Mother I'd Like to Fuck (which is just slightly above calling your coworker slut). The second sentence is sexual harassment.

uhm okay. So basically movies full of violence, drugs, guns, etc, and video games full of similar are fine. You wouldn't be offended if someone in your office plays Call of Duty right? But somehow telling someone you find them attractive (I'd like to Fuck) is offensive. Gee I feel bad for you... if that really offends you.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#394
post #389
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he did not apologize. Nor did I expect him too. I expected him to treat me with respect, not kiss my ass, curry favor or fear me. I spent some time making sure he understood that I was not a threat to him, not out to get him and that I was also going to do all in my power to respect him. This is how I won his trust. He was a very good looking man in a female majority department. Eventually, he seemed to take a fe…

I'm glad that you exist. From what I get reading these threads on this post, many people with power to fire and hire people know a big glossy nothing about human interaction and psychology. Not even one person gives a thought to whether the guy knows what MILF actually is. Not a single consideration was given to his age, his background, his experience. No chance to make a single mistake. Is it mostly like this in the…

She did the correct thing. She went to her boss. That is where she should seek remedy before going to the police.

It is typically dangerous for a woman to try to assert herself directly with a man she feels is harassing her. I am particularly savvy and I confronted him and also copied our two bosses and I was well aware I was taking a serious risk. But I also was 100% clear that if I did not take a firm stand with the first incident, it would only get harder.

This is a problem space I have studied for a lot of years. I am unusually well equipped to deal with it. Please don't start talking like the guy must be innocent. That is as bad, or worse, than the people ready to hang him high with zero due process.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so if I go to your boss and tell him you called me a MILF, it's true? It's not completely implausible there is an ulterior motive. And she is well protected if there is. He, on the other hand is not. None of us know enough about the situation to make a determination in either direction.

If you're a woman, yes, it's probably true. Like 10,000,000:1 chance. If the boss has known me for a long time and it seems completely out of character for me (which it would be), then maybe he talks to me about it to see WTF is up. But some dude who just got hired? Assuming there's no record and no witnesses? You have to go with the vastly more likely case that he did it. If that gets 1 in 10,000,000 guys unfairly f…

Where did this 10,000,000:1 number come from? Why 10^7:1, why not 10^100:1? I can't find evidence that men are millions of times more likely to lie in harassment cases.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#396
Agree with Patrick on your next steps. So go do that.

My breakdown of the reasons to terminate:

1. New employee did not follow broadly understood/legal courtship protocol with female colleague. [e.g.: On tinder/okcupid/etc., you can try your luck with "DTF?" or "You're a lovely MILF." Doing the same with a work colleague (regardless of whether on the clock or not) is broadly accepted to be harassment. Why? Because the parties are both colleagues who have to work together. On okcupid, a recipient of "DTF?" can immediately block the sender. Not so easy to do a colleague. Our legal system protects workers from harassment. "MILF" isn't just a query about going out for coffee. It is a GOTO jump over many protocol stages without ACKs from recipient.

2. New employee is either ignorant of work-based courtship protocol, new employee actively chose to disregard it, or perhaps new employee was drunk during the exchange. It doesn't really matter. Either way, the guy does not meet the standards to work in a professionally run company.

3. By so flagrantly violating a commonly understood protocol [workplace courtship] very early in his employment, the guy is demonstrating to his boss that he is not worthy of trust and responsibility. Terminate him.

As for those few of you who think the guy should be given a break, this is corporate worker bee 101 stuff. Sure he is sexually interested in a colleague. There is no problem with that. The thing that is for very good reasons, your fellow workers are protected from harassment. Dating a fellow worker requires running a very different courtship protocol than picking up someone in a bar or over tinder.

Unless you feel qualified to run corporate-dating-protocol from start to finish (what will you do post hook-up/break-up?), please consider the advice of our forebears: don't dip your pen in the company ink.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#397
post #3

Lawyer lawyer lawyer LAWYER lawyer LAWYER . I think the consensus in the grown-up business world is "fire immediately for cause." I would bet substantial money that when you lawyer lawyer lawyer they will advise you to do that and document the heck out of it. The calculus is really, really simple: if you don't, then you will with probability approaching one get this incident or a similar incident cited during a threa…

Yes, but fast forward 5-10 years and we'll see Ask HN: how do I get rid of this lawyer who insists I can't do anything without his expert advice?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#398
While your business might be your life, for most of your employees it's only a job.

This means that for most of them, it must be pleasant. They must be able to joke around and even, occasionally, flirt. If you try to turn every social interaction into a perfectly professional unfriendly and unsexualised environment, you will very quickly find that you are the only one left.

This is even more relevant in a small startup. In my experience, the worst kind of work environment is a startup trying to act like a big multinational. None of the perks, but all of the soulless experience.

I have nothing against firing someone for bad behavior. However, with the little info you provided us, there is nothing serious.

Make sure the new employee knows that her colleague didn't like his approaches and that it won't happen again.

You should also try to get both sides of the story.

Finally, you did say this:

> The employee in question has made it clear that it's not a big deal and she knows how to deal with it (...)

How is she going to react if you fire his ass? Wouldn't it be acting like she can't take care of herself?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#399
Hire slow, fire fast.

He's new. If he's still in a probationary period - either by statute or contractually - get rid of him. If he's not, and he's a brand new employee, consider adding wording to future contracts regarding a probationary period.

Obviously, still talk to a lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#400
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that it's an acronym. You mustn't be thinking straight if you feel acronyms can't transcend their literal interpretation. Spend 10 seconds thinking about it and you'll think of many nouns which originated as acronyms.

Like OK, Laser, Pin, Id. There are also words like 'posh' which have claimed acronym origins (although they are probably incorrect). http://www.etymonline.com/baloney.php And according to the Oxford dictionary the particular word in question counts too. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_englis...

And Captcha!
Post reply on HN