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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#331

Post by beambot »

gkya wrote: post #323
gommm wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a clear difference between "I like your new haircut" which I agree is not sexual harassment and MILF: Mother I'd Like to Fuck (which is just slightly above calling your coworker slut). The second sentence is sexual harassment.

We don't know if the mentioned person's mother tongue is English. They may well not know that MILF is mother I like to f*ck. I'm from a non English speaking country and I can say that I haven't met anybody who'd know that. I myself didn't know that until I read a Wikipedia article. The OP should first try to see if this is the case, otherwise fire them. Some are bad at flirting, and sometimes you say silly things. We…

In many states, intent doesn't matter for sexual harassment -- even if the person saying "MILF" didn't know what it meant, the recipient could still construe it as harassment (and win!).

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#332

Post by chadnickbok »

tptacek wrote: post #256
harryh wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK first off I will 100% admit that I am not an expert in this area and hence could be wrong (going back to the previously agreed upon advice that "Lawyer up" is clearly the right thing to do). That having been said, I have received training, by a lawyer, about how to manage situations in which a sexual harassment claim has been made. In that training I was told that the accused employee has a right to hear and respo…

I'm not a lawyer either, but I believe that with the exception of defamation --- getting back to "be careful about the words 'for cause'" --- it's not true that you legally owe an accused employee process before terminating them. I think what you were told was false, or that you misunderstood it. I don't think that the victims of a false harassment claim are entitled to damages for their termination. I would welcome…

Your last point is something that I've stumbled across before, and something that it seems many folks (especially engineers) don't fully grasp.

As I understand it, even "getting drunk and trash talking a previous employee" in front of the wrong people can be seen as impacting someone's employ-ability, and can land you in some difficult legal situations if you're high up enough. Essentially the only safe thing to say about past employees is nothing.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#333

Post by rwmj »

I've had a similar experience at a start up I once worked at.

We hired our first network administrator to replace developers like me who had been doing the same sort of job.

The day that he started the job, we received an email that someone using our gateway IP address had posted to Usenet [this was a while back] the IP and root password of some other company's public webserver, with a message to the effect that people should "f--- it up". The email also stated that the root password seemed to work, and we verified that.

We quickly worked out that the server was our new employee's previous workplace, and we sacked him and walked him out on the spot. He didn't receive any pay or benefits. We also documented everything on paper in case there was some legal problem (which didn't happen, of course, but you never know with some people).

So my advice is:

* Document everything. On real, physical paper. Sign and date each page.

* Fire them, now.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#334

Post by DanGarcia595 »

gkya wrote: post #323
gommm wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a clear difference between "I like your new haircut" which I agree is not sexual harassment and MILF: Mother I'd Like to Fuck (which is just slightly above calling your coworker slut). The second sentence is sexual harassment.

We don't know if the mentioned person's mother tongue is English. They may well not know that MILF is mother I like to f*ck. I'm from a non English speaking country and I can say that I haven't met anybody who'd know that. I myself didn't know that until I read a Wikipedia article. The OP should first try to see if this is the case, otherwise fire them. Some are bad at flirting, and sometimes you say silly things. We…

If that is the case, would you, not knowing the meaning of a word, use that word in a professional environment? And also, does not understanding the meaning of the word excuse it's use?

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#335

Post by chadnickbok »

rsp1984 wrote: post #201

I am not a lawyer, but: Apart from the "Milf" comment I don't see much in your description of events that would qualify as sexual harassment (at least not from my European view of things). Certainly unprofessional but not quite sexually harassing. As far as I understand, the transgressions were "only" verbal and there was no other inappropriate behaviour. Here's what I would do: Collect all the facts and evidence abo…

Apart from the "you're a mom I'd like to " comment...

Once you break apart the acronym its pretty clear you should fire this guy.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#336

Post by Mz »

rwmj wrote: post #333

I've had a similar experience at a start up I once worked at. We hired our first network administrator to replace developers like me who had been doing the same sort of job. The day that he started the job, we received an email that someone using our gateway IP address had posted to Usenet [this was a while back] the IP and root password of some other company's public webserver, with a message to the effect that peop…

Well, that's a nice story, but I don't see how an attempt at intentional malicious sabotage of their previous employer is "similar" to this.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#337

Post by walrus01 »

kohanz wrote: post #177
falcolas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the side of the story we know. Do you know something not present in this narrative? The use of 'milf', whether it's derogatory or a compliment, will depend entirely on the context of the larger conversation. Something we don't have. Something which apparently the OP didn't have either.

Please provide one example of using the term "MILF" in a professionally appropriate way.

When you work for an intelligence agency, federal law enforcement, customs/immigration or something like that (or a private sector contractor for them), and the topic of discussion is the MILF?

the MILF is a violent organization that has been known to cut off peoples' heads...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Islamic_Liberation_Front

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#338

Post by kybernetikos »

anjc wrote: post #213
pestaa wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an acronym. It can't transcend its literal meaning. The amount of convenient and false assumptions you made in your post is indeed baffling.

I understand that it's an acronym. You mustn't be thinking straight if you feel acronyms can't transcend their literal interpretation. Spend 10 seconds thinking about it and you'll think of many nouns which originated as acronyms.

Like OK, Laser, Pin, Id.

There are also words like 'posh' which have claimed acronym origins (although they are probably incorrect). http://www.etymonline.com/baloney.php

And according to the Oxford dictionary the particular word in question counts too.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_englis...

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#339

Post by gkya »

the_fury wrote: post #206
datalist wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though were "crude work-inappropriate remarks" the case here? We here know too little to really make educated statements.

I'm having trouble thinking of a situation in which calling someone a milf would be anything but a "crude work-inappropriate remark".

Not knowing enough English slang to know what it stands for? I wrote sth similar elsewhere in this thread, I guess to many milf means sexy 30+ yrs old female.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#340

Post by ascendantlogic »

Sorry, but the person's gotta go. Get your lawyer on the phone, get the documentation ducks in a row, then let the axe fall. If you let the harassed employee know before hand is up to you, but I probably would a day or so before so they could prepare, change their phone number or something if they wanted, etc.
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