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Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

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Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#241
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benghazi was the result of a YouTube video! We're not spying on your emails! I never sent classified information on that server! Drone strikes only hit terrorists! There are no secret "kill lists"! With this insurance program you'll get to keep your doctors! We aren't going to make you pay for insurance you don't need! The SuperDelegates are just a way to amplify Vox Populi! "If Facebook is keeping "news" like this,…

(Remember, the point was matching "empirical reality") > Benghazi was the result of a YouTube video! Meh. Who cares? That was an insignificant event compared to the climate and government policy. > We're not spying on your emails! This one uses the NSA's word game where they claim it's only a "search" when a human looks at it. While I suspect many regular politicians (including Obama) don't fully understand the subje…

> Meh. Who cares? That was an insignificant event compared to the climate and government policy.

Mostly agree except for that poor video-creating dude who was thrown in jail for a year, plus or minus, as part of cover for a lie during campaign season. Right or left - you've gotta admit that kind of sucks.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#242
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's bad is that it doesn't help reinforce your feeling that your position is correct when the other side is being actively suppressed. I generally agree with many liberal positions, but when I hear about stuff like this it makes me want to reconsider my opinions of conservative positions. It's exactly like the Streisand Effect.

at the same time, how do you feel about creationism and intelligent design being suppressed instead of given equal airtime with competing theories. what constitutes "fair?" if one group is twice as loud while delivering the same amount of content, is it unfair to turn their volume down by half? how about something like snopes or myth debunking? does dr oz deserve equal placement to more credible nutrition science? wh…

Quis custodiet ipsos custodet? (Who watches the watchers?)

To have some kind of filtering or curation, you necessarily have to put some people into a position of power where they have the ability to censor this noise. On a forum where it's explicitly known that such "moderators" are present, and even better if their biases are known, this is perfectly fine. If I'm on a science-oriented discussion forum and it's advertised that the moderators of this forum will ban anyone who attempts to spread pseudoscience or anti-science religious junk, that'll help attract me because I don't want waste my time looking at that crap.

There's also forums where there's very little such curation, and instead community moderation is mostly relied on: users are given moderation points to boost or suppress other posts. That's fine too: you know going in what the deal is, so you just have to see if you mesh with the other members or not.

However, if a forum claims to be "open" and "inclusive" but then censors people, that's just hypocritical and wrong. If you're going to push a bias, then you have to at least inform users of this.

As it relates to Facebook, which is supposed to be for everyone and not just people of a certain political persuasion, they shouldn't be censoring anything unless they're going to make this known up-front (which they haven't). "Trending topics" should be anything that's highly popular. If some completely wrong and debunked BS is the most popular new story among your site's users, then you need to show that at the top, or else you're not serving your users. If you don't like that, then you either need to inform them of how you're going to censor and slant things, or you need to get rid of users you don't like. Or maybe just get rid of the "trending topics" section, and replace it with something more fine-tuned so that one group of users doesn't get annoyed at seeing junk they disagree with that another group of users really likes.

The simple fact is that you can't please everyone. If you try, you're going to fail. Sites like Reddit avoid this by having tons of different sub-forums, each with their own rules and moderators. Some far-right conservative wackos can co-exist with far-left liberals there because they're on separate subreddits.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#243

I have no great love of conservative politics, but there's a convincing argument to be made that their ideas and views are routinely suppressed by media outside of explicitly partisan media outlets (i.e. Fox News or talk radio). There are a number of studies that back up this claim. A 2008 study[0] found that 88% of journalists donate to the Democratic party. Jonathan Haidt has shown[1] that non-economics social scie…

This "seems" like an American phenomenon. As a liberal, I can have a fully formed debate with a British Conservative, A Canadian conservative, a European conservative (sans latent Nazism), however the dominant American conservative seems to be operating on a completely different plain and set of assumptions. I find it extremely difficult to relate to and debate the American conservative. In general, if an american (c…

>>> I find it extremely difficult to relate to and debate the American conservative

Yet, the topic here is that conservative-related news items appear to have been suppressed or down-scored on the influential Facebook trending box, presumably by liberal or liberal-leaning curators (or algorithms written by liberal leaning programmers).

How do you conclude that conservatives are uncompromising or closed minded when in fact it is the liberal side that is closing the door here?

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#244

Let's actually examine the claims: Among the deep-sixed or suppressed topics on the list: former IRS official Lois Lerner, who was accused by Republicans of inappropriately scrutinizing conservative groups; Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker; popular conservative news aggregator the Drudge Report; Chris Kyle, the former Navy SEAL who was murdered in 2013; and former Fox News contributor Steven Crowder. What scandals were be…

> What scandals were being discussed yet suppressed from the "trending news" list out of these examples? How many of these examples are actual news stories? The IRS thing turned out to be overblown bullshit, what about the rest of them?

Is that actually true? The IRS' claim that every drive containing copies of the emails failed makes anything I hear from their side completely non-credible, in my opinion. Technically there is a chance of 100% drive failure, so I can't claim with complete certainty that they're full of it, but I think there were at least three 9s of the claim being bullshit the last time I ran through the numbers.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#245

I have no great love of conservative politics, but there's a convincing argument to be made that their ideas and views are routinely suppressed by media outside of explicitly partisan media outlets (i.e. Fox News or talk radio). There are a number of studies that back up this claim. A 2008 study[0] found that 88% of journalists donate to the Democratic party. Jonathan Haidt has shown[1] that non-economics social scie…

> For anyone who believes these statistics are not based on overt discrimination based on political viewpoint, a recent study[2] showed that discrimination by party is stronger than that of race.

That makes sense. I will freely admit my opinion of a person changes if I find out that they are a republican or libertarian. Doesn't make them a bad person, but the ideas put out by the prominent members of those parties frequently range from from stupid to completely horrifying.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#246

I have no great love of conservative politics, but there's a convincing argument to be made that their ideas and views are routinely suppressed by media outside of explicitly partisan media outlets (i.e. Fox News or talk radio). There are a number of studies that back up this claim. A 2008 study[0] found that 88% of journalists donate to the Democratic party. Jonathan Haidt has shown[1] that non-economics social scie…

In the specific case of conservative politics, why does it matter that it's so skewed? I have absolutely no issue with, in this specific case, conservative politics not receiving much attention. I would liken it to not giving "flat earthers", blatant racists, and charlatans air time (excuse the hyperbole, hopefully the point was understood). While I agree that ideological conformity is a problem, I think it's a sympt…

This is a big problem that I've been seeing a lot lately: Liberals and Progressives thinking that they're absolutely right and just, and as such, they should censor those that they perceive as not being right or just. But who is the judge here? How do we really know what is absolutely right or just?

Censorship of any kind is inherently dangerous and detrimental to true progress. Aren't equality, open-mindedness, and freedom of expression paramount to liberal thought? Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

But shouldn't none of this matter? If we're right, should we really need to silence our opponents? If our ideas are fundamentally right, then they should win in a fair and open marketplace of ideas, without the unfair advantage of censorship.

The very fact that you want (or feel the need) to silence your opponent sheds a light on the quality and legitimacy of your ideas. I say this as someone who has always been classically liberal; we have abandoned our true ideals (the ideals which have usually placed us on the right side of history) for radicalism and new forms of bigotry and inequality. The Overton Window has radically shifted and those that were previously on the left are now falling closer to the center-right.

We are a polarized nation and this is reflected in the atrocious line-up of presidential candidates that we have right now.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#247
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given Facebook's influence and the sheer size of their userbase, the potential long-term implications of this particular kind of manipulation are... unsettling.

I am not surprised Facebook has been doing this. It's ironic. Silicon Valley is all about question the authorities. Ask why. And now we hear stories like these Orwellian like practices... This will be another interesting topic historians will examine years from now. What happens when an outsider/outcast/underdog group becomes the insiders/powerful. Do they act like tycoons in the past (using power to preserve itself)…

For anyone interested in this shift in power, check out futurist Alvin Toffler's Powershift.

His thesis is that the pinnacle of power throughout time as technology has evolved has shifted from brute strength, to money in the industrial age, and now finally to information in the post-industrial age which we live in now.

http://www.amazon.com/Powershift-Knowledge-Wealth-Violence-C...

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "seems" like an American phenomenon. As a liberal, I can have a fully formed debate with a British Conservative, A Canadian conservative, a European conservative (sans latent Nazism), however the dominant American conservative seems to be operating on a completely different plain and set of assumptions. I find it extremely difficult to relate to and debate the American conservative. In general, if an american (c…

>>> I find it extremely difficult to relate to and debate the American conservative Yet, the topic here is that conservative-related news items appear to have been suppressed or down-scored on the influential Facebook trending box, presumably by liberal or liberal-leaning curators (or algorithms written by liberal leaning programmers). How do you conclude that conservatives are uncompromising or closed minded when in…

Most of Facebook's users are international. There is a chance that what is "liberal" in America is simply something that runs counter to the American conservatives disciplined beliefs.

Example #1: When a prominent American conservative does something like shutdown the government instead of compromising (remember compromising gets you booted at the next elections see: Paul Ryan). To most of the world (liberal and conservative), this is nuts. Facebook bubbles news reports about how "crazy" this is to the top. American news media will most likely call this a liberal bias when really it's just an international one.

Example #2: If facebook, editorializes a giant Ice-sheet melting and how that is related to anthropogenic global warming (something most International conservatives have accepted), most American conservatives will call that to be liberal bias. Note that this is not about policy decisions, most international conservatives don't agree with Carbon Taxes for instance, but one of just straight facts and assumptions.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#249
post #225

The American two-party system is so weird. It tries to condense a complex matrix of sometimes-overlapping and fluid opinion scales -- socially conservative vs. socially liberal, globalist vs. protectionist, environmentalist vs. laissez-faire capitalist, and so on -- into one binary value. And somehow people have become convinced that not only is such a binary scale meaningful, but also the only available choice. In m…

Agreed, and to me, this is a direct result of media organizations' extreme biases in America. This seems to be the missing link. I don't know of many non-American hyper-conservative media organizations that have directly tied their profit motive to how virulently their viewers believe that POV and are WILDLY successful at it.

No, it's a result of the voting system. It will never change unless the Constitution changes. The best you can hope for without constitutional change is something like Britain; i.e. still a two-party system but less extreme differences. I think the extreme differences in the US vs the UK is less because of the media (british media is nastier than US in many ways) and more because UK society is more unified.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#250
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at the same time, how do you feel about creationism and intelligent design being suppressed instead of given equal airtime with competing theories. what constitutes "fair?" if one group is twice as loud while delivering the same amount of content, is it unfair to turn their volume down by half? how about something like snopes or myth debunking? does dr oz deserve equal placement to more credible nutrition science? wh…

Quis custodiet ipsos custodet? (Who watches the watchers?) To have some kind of filtering or curation, you necessarily have to put some people into a position of power where they have the ability to censor this noise. On a forum where it's explicitly known that such "moderators" are present, and even better if their biases are known, this is perfectly fine. If I'm on a science-oriented discussion forum and it's adver…

>However, if a forum claims to be "open" and "inclusive" but then censors people, that's just hypocritical and wrong.

I just dont think the trending stories ever made an emphatic claim to be open and inclusive, nor is promoting some stories artificially the equivalent to "censorship." Not allowing stories in the timeline is completely different than manually choosing the trending stories for a day.

Facebook has always been pro censorship. No nipples, no porn. I dont think of facebook as a place for free speech, and I never felt as if the trending stories was some organic popular list. I know everything on facebook is specifically chosen to get ME to click.

That said, watching the watchers is easy if sites publish transparency reports and publish "stories we didnt cover." Problem solved.

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