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Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

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Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#211

I hate how Silicon Valley culture makes it seem like they are all for freedom of information and how the big bad government is censoring and surveilling things from a bunch of innocent hackers (startup guys) when in reality if given the opportunity this crowd does the EXACT same thing. I have limited respect for either party

Tech companies are not immune to the negative side effects that come with large centralized institutions, even if it started in Silicon Valley. I don't believe we're ignorant to this fact.

We tend to rally against centralization and attempts to control information. Which is exactly why this is frontpage on HN.

FB has been consistently attacked for this type of stuff for years. That's a healthy sign of our community valuing freedom/markets/algorithms over the risks of handing over large amounts of power to a few humans. It seems even Facebook even values this approach as their own technology reaches parity with human curation:

> Several former curators said that as the trending news algorithm improved, there were fewer instances of stories being injected.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#212

“Every once in awhile a Red State or conservative news source would have a story. But we would have to go and find the same story from a more neutral outlet that wasn’t as biased.” How awful.

I always do the same thing when I'm sending an article to someone who doesn't lean the same way politically, or when I (rarely) get preachy on my wall

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#213
Let's actually examine the claims:

Among the deep-sixed or suppressed topics on the list: former IRS official Lois Lerner, who was accused by Republicans of inappropriately scrutinizing conservative groups; Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker; popular conservative news aggregator the Drudge Report; Chris Kyle, the former Navy SEAL who was murdered in 2013; and former Fox News contributor Steven Crowder.

What scandals were being discussed yet suppressed from the "trending news" list out of these examples? How many of these examples are actual news stories? The IRS thing turned out to be overblown bullshit, what about the rest of them?

When was the last time you heard your friends talking about Scott Walker, the guy who flopped in the polls and dropped out of the race before a single primary?

It shouldn't be surprising if these curators decided to wait to see if a story being shared from breitbart.com was reported by bigger news outlets first. Many of these so-called conservative media outlets have a terrible record on reporting actual news.

It is possible that Facebook suppresses actual news. It is also possible that this source (falsely) believed that not-really-news-or-trending stories were "suppressed" when in fact they were just not popular or smelt like bullshit.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#214
[Disclosure: I'm an ex-FB employee.]

This is a bit of a click-bait title, and is somewhat true -- but not in the way you think.

When FB was developing hashtags and content features, there was a concern that it is tough to find a middle-ground between 100% purely algorithmic generated content (i.e. leverage tastes data and supply articles suited to your interests) and 100% curated content (i.e. leverage tastes data, but only show articles from "reputable" sources and/or highly rated content, over shitty blog posts from amateurs.) The latter tends to do really well for engagement, as users can trust that the content they're seeing is reputable and popular. However the big concern that a number of us were raising was that tech companies have employees that are very biased in ways that they cannot control: they're younger, more liberal, and somewhat higher income, than the average FB user.

In my time there, I never heard of _explicit_ suppression of any viewpoints - with the exception of recent disagreements around the "Black Lives Matter" protests, the first time that I encountered a situation where disagreeing meant you were labelled a "racist" - but I can see why well-intentioned product and policy decisions led FB content down this hole.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#215

I have no great love of conservative politics, but there's a convincing argument to be made that their ideas and views are routinely suppressed by media outside of explicitly partisan media outlets (i.e. Fox News or talk radio). There are a number of studies that back up this claim. A 2008 study[0] found that 88% of journalists donate to the Democratic party. Jonathan Haidt has shown[1] that non-economics social scie…

In the specific case of conservative politics, why does it matter that it's so skewed? I have absolutely no issue with, in this specific case, conservative politics not receiving much attention. I would liken it to not giving "flat earthers", blatant racists, and charlatans air time (excuse the hyperbole, hopefully the point was understood). While I agree that ideological conformity is a problem, I think it's a sympt…

Funny that you should mention flat earthers - when Galileo published his works proposed a heliocentric system, he was tried for heresy.

I'm sure at the time, the Church were confident they were right about the matter and therefore had no qualms in suppressing Galileo's claims.

Freedom of information and opinion is what drives progress. Should conservative opinions be wrong, then there is no fear in giving them a platform - they can be publicly debunked, to the downfall of their message.

Given that they are feared, suggests that the jury is still out on whether their opinions are categorically wrong, or even whether the opposing opinion is categorically right. In this case, it will be free discussion which will enable us as a society to converge on the correct path.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#216
post #208

I have no great love of conservative politics, but there's a convincing argument to be made that their ideas and views are routinely suppressed by media outside of explicitly partisan media outlets (i.e. Fox News or talk radio). There are a number of studies that back up this claim. A 2008 study[0] found that 88% of journalists donate to the Democratic party. Jonathan Haidt has shown[1] that non-economics social scie…

> non-economics social sciences skew more than 14-1 liberal to conservative isn't it so for every science? I mean it is only natural that the conservative views are displaced by education and scientific knowledge. That is almost by definition.

One of the fascinating things about that article I linked to is that it shows that this extreme bias has only existed since the 1990's. Before that time academia was moderately slanted to the left (a ratio of 2-1 or 3-1), but not to the severe extent. It's important to note that while conservative positions on some issues are objectively at odds with science (global warming comes to mind), there are plenty of liberal viewpoints that are also at odds with mainstream scientific research (think research in genetically modified organisms, or mandatory vaccination policies).

This article is a good example of how liberal viewpoints can also conflict with science:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/12/when-liberals-attack-so...

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is more a result of the media's heavy pro-Clinton bias rather than any overt attempt by Facebook. Remember that the mainstream media is ultimately the primary driver of these algorithms.

Actually.. Hillary has received the most negative media articles out of any candidate, including Trump. http://www.vox.com/2016/4/15/11410160/hillary-clinton-media-...

That's really a pretty useless analysis. By that metric, the media had an overwhelming bias towards Lincoln Chaffee.

In fact, it directly supports the scenario the OP brought up. Frequently Bernie Sanders will bring something up and then the media focuses its article on Hillary's response (even if that article might sometimes be unflattering).

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#218

Let's actually examine the claims: Among the deep-sixed or suppressed topics on the list: former IRS official Lois Lerner, who was accused by Republicans of inappropriately scrutinizing conservative groups; Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker; popular conservative news aggregator the Drudge Report; Chris Kyle, the former Navy SEAL who was murdered in 2013; and former Fox News contributor Steven Crowder. What scandals were be…

We'd also need counter points that left-leaning news with fluffy content was also rejected to evaluate this fairly.

The claims are that there is a right-leaning bias, if it was a bias against polarized news or poorly sourced articles then this wouldn't be news-worthy.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the specific case of conservative politics, why does it matter that it's so skewed? I have absolutely no issue with, in this specific case, conservative politics not receiving much attention. I would liken it to not giving "flat earthers", blatant racists, and charlatans air time (excuse the hyperbole, hopefully the point was understood). While I agree that ideological conformity is a problem, I think it's a sympt…

The concern is that you may be equating the conservative position to flat earthers bases on biased information. It's the classic epistomological dilemma, how do you know what you know? Maybe reality doesn't have a liberal bias. Maybe it's just the loudest people who have a liberal bias.

We might also be equating anti-vaccine individuals to flat-earthers based on biased information. This is pretty much true for just about anything we filter out. Sometimes the fringe stuff turns out to be correct, but often it's not. The National Enquirer broke the John Edwards scandal, yet most people don't take it as a reliable source since most of it's stories are still bogus.

From the story:

> Stories covered by conservative outlets (like Breitbart, Washington Examiner, and Newsmax) that were trending enough to be picked up by Facebook’s algorithm were excluded unless mainstream sites like the New York Times, the BBC, and CNN covered the same stories.

That doesn't seem too terrible to me. If something from a untrustworthy source known for political agitprop is trending, I wouldn't mind Facebook waiting to see if the mainstream press picks up on it.

If they were letting through stories from places like AlterNet through that would show bias, but being generally cautious with biased sites that have low journalistic standards isn't the worst thing in the world.

Re: Former Facebook Workers: We Routinely Suppressed Conservative News

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "flat earthers", blatant racists, and charlatans air time (excuse the hyperbole, hopefully the point was understood). The point was understood, but differently than you intended. These terms seem to be used to reference the folks that would claim to hold the conservative viewpoint, but the terms themselves only further evidence the misunderstood viewpoint non-conservatives may have of conservatives, and that misund…

To piggyback on this, one of the things Jonathan Haidt has shown in his work on ideological bias is that liberals are unable to accurately understand the conservative worldview, while both conservative and moderates are able to accurately explain liberal positions. Here's an explanation of the study: >One other point that I find really interesting and important about Haidt’s work is his findings on the ability of dif…

The quote "Conservatives think Liberals are stupid, Liberals think Conservatives are evil" seems to apply here.
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