Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills • Hacker News Board

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#221

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #215

zwarag wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, if most people were like me, ... My teacher always said: Imagine the most average american citizen. Then realize that half of the american population is dumber that. Really brings things in perspective.

Really brings things in perspective. It does, doesnt it? I mean, you'd think a math teacher of all people would know not to use "average" when they really mean "median". I always wondered whether Carlin was being ironic when he told the joke.

> you'd think a math teacher of all people would know not to use "average" when they really mean "median".

I think a math teacher would be well aware that "average" can be used for "median", "mode", "arithmetic mean", or any of the other means (geometric, harmonic, etc.), as well as other computed values that are somewhere in the space bounded by the extremes of a data set, and would likewise be aware that, while in a formal context "average" should -- for that reason -- be avoided in favor of identifying the specific measure more precisely, it was acceptable and unambiguous to use "average" for any of those, including the median, where context made it clear which was intended.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#222

Post by gumby » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

mulletbum wrote: post #156

dahart wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does this happen? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bliss_point_(food) > There can be only one explanation Why/how have you arrived at this conclusion? > it's always framed as if "big evil corporations" is the whole problem So, you have evidence of food that shouldn't have sugar in it but does in fact have sugar anyway. And you conclude that it's the consumer's fault, because they're stupid, and not the company t…

Do you feel that a consumer is responsible for what they put in their body? If they never tasted the food, they would miss out on this "marketing." The fact remains, if those manufacturers have always produced their beans with sugar, then they should not be at fault. If those companies changed their recipe to contain sugar after they found people grey addicted to it, there should be a label to warn the consumer that…

> Do you feel that a consumer is responsible for what they put in their body?

Of course, but nobody has the time to become a domain expert on every subject (consider this a low pass filtering problem). It's reasonable for there to be food safety standards (who has time to investigate the meat packing plant, the mill, etc etc), building codes etc as baseline rules.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#223

Post by linker3000 » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

madengr wrote: post #214

jensen123 wrote: post #72

The other day I went to buy some canned refried beans. When I read the label, I noticed that it contained refined sugar. WTF?!? There should be no need for sugar in refried beans! After recovering from the shock, I went to another grocery store, where I found refried beans without sugar. Why does this happen? Obviously, sugar tastes good. That has to be why companies add it to all sorts of things. However, if most pe…

Ditto for pasta sauce. Difficult to find ones that don't have sugar. Only one at my grocery store despite a shelf full of various brands.

I make my own - start with a tin of decent quality tomatoes and go from there. No sugar needed.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#224

Post by gumby » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #177

cookiecaper wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you feel that a consumer is responsible for what they put in their body? Of course. But the average consumer is not only at a disadvantage, they are regularly deceived into believing that unhealthy foods are in fact healthy. In reality, culpability is a complex calculation that passes through the farmer, the food processor, the manufacturer, the ad firm, the grocer, the consumer, and any other party involved in t…

The blame also rests with regulators like the FDA, who for decades promoted a food pyramid that was basically upside-down in terms of what was healthy; who for decades promoted that partially-hydroginated oils (trans-fats) were preferable to natural saturated fats; who encouraged a "low fat" diet that prompted food producers to substitute sugar for fat to make foods tasty and consumers to consume an unhealthy high-st…

Remember the FDA is part of the Department of Agriculture and that the Ag department's responsibility is to simultaneously protect the food supply (i.e. make sure it happens, take the farmers' side etc), manage food safety and support public health. Any surprise these objectives are at odds, and which side has more profit attached?

This is like the Department of the Interior whose mission is to protect the environment and to encourage mining. In their case it means oil company employees had did drugs with and had sex with their government regulators (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11royalty.html?...)

I am beyond considering this corrupt and simply shake my head that it's fundamentally mis-architected.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#225

Post by cloudjacker » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

jensen123 wrote: post #72

The other day I went to buy some canned refried beans. When I read the label, I noticed that it contained refined sugar. WTF?!? There should be no need for sugar in refried beans! After recovering from the shock, I went to another grocery store, where I found refried beans without sugar. Why does this happen? Obviously, sugar tastes good. That has to be why companies add it to all sorts of things. However, if most pe…

> Of course, the media wants as many consumers as possible, too, so calling most of their potential readers/viewers stupid is probably a bad strategy, even though it's the truth.

And this is where state sponsored media excels.

So many people concerned about imaginary covered up human rights abuses to see how all the other news gets reported in a much more informative way.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#226

Post by ghock » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #121

jensen123 wrote: post #72

The other day I went to buy some canned refried beans. When I read the label, I noticed that it contained refined sugar. WTF?!? There should be no need for sugar in refried beans! After recovering from the shock, I went to another grocery store, where I found refried beans without sugar. Why does this happen? Obviously, sugar tastes good. That has to be why companies add it to all sorts of things. However, if most pe…

There can only be one explanation: most consumers are dumb. Or other people have different tradeoffs between short-term pleasure and statistical long-term health. You can define that as "stupid" if you want, but I'm guessing there are plenty of things that you do because you enjoy them that you would not do if maximizing health were your sole priority.

I think this "stupid" and choice discussion that comes up quite often for this subject is somewhat of a distraction. There's plenty of people who eat relativly healthy not because they are "smart" about it, but because that's how they grew up. They are just "dumb" in the right direction. I doubt people were more knowledgeable about food when everyone smoked and there was lead in everything.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#227

Post by hinkley » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

cisstrd wrote: post #155

Nestle is a very big company making all kinds of products, and since ever more people are following the health and fitness craze, there are so many people obsessed with health, they want to profit from it. They want to adjust their company in order to guarantee future profits, that's actually (a) the most normal thing in the world and (b) a form of following consumer's choice and wishes. I don't see how selling sugar…

You know, people say the same kinds of things about Sony, but it's obvious to everybody that Sony Pictures has screwed up Sony Electronics, and badly.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#228

Post by nefitty » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

jensen123 wrote: post #72

The other day I went to buy some canned refried beans. When I read the label, I noticed that it contained refined sugar. WTF?!? There should be no need for sugar in refried beans! After recovering from the shock, I went to another grocery store, where I found refried beans without sugar. Why does this happen? Obviously, sugar tastes good. That has to be why companies add it to all sorts of things. However, if most pe…

A person doesn't necessarily have to be dumb to fall for these traps. Consider if you had been at the grocery store, particularly exhausted from the day, and just wanted to grab some ingredients. Maybe today you don't notice the added sugar. Today your brain was just spent. Does that make you a dumb consumer all of a sudden?

Most of us average Joe's and Jane's have a lot to juggle in our heads at any given moment. Can I please be excused for not scrounging several stores for sugar free beans, palm oil free chocolate, free range chicken, ethically sourced coffee, etc.? I'm not dumb, it just happens to be that the beans with the sugar are right here in front of me, I have other things to do, and I value my time considerably more than I value this one ethical preference, at the moment.

Default and convenient choices are what consumers respond to. Producers responded to basic biological facts like needing sugar and salt and fat, and so now we're in a place where I can get a Big Mac more cheaply and easily than I can get a cold veggie sandwich. I'm not dumb, I'm busy.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#229

Post by wrsh07 » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

jensen123 wrote: post #72

The other day I went to buy some canned refried beans. When I read the label, I noticed that it contained refined sugar. WTF?!? There should be no need for sugar in refried beans! After recovering from the shock, I went to another grocery store, where I found refried beans without sugar. Why does this happen? Obviously, sugar tastes good. That has to be why companies add it to all sorts of things. However, if most pe…

Your explanation seems flawed.

Why do people play games with microtransactions?

Why are casino games mind-numbingly bland?

Companies do things that generate profit. Profit is generated by manipulating consumer behavior. Consumers aren't necessarily stupid for being exploited.

In fact, that's the whole point: their instinctive behavior is being exploited.

Re: Nestlé Wants to Sell You Both Sugary Snacks and Diabetes Pills

#230

Post by Aelinsaar » Mon, May 09, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

jensen123 wrote: post #72

The other day I went to buy some canned refried beans. When I read the label, I noticed that it contained refined sugar. WTF?!? There should be no need for sugar in refried beans! After recovering from the shock, I went to another grocery store, where I found refried beans without sugar. Why does this happen? Obviously, sugar tastes good. That has to be why companies add it to all sorts of things. However, if most pe…

Why not both? If you're big and don't care about your consumer beyond their role as a source of money, maybe a stupid consumer is desirable? I think it just happens to be that almost anyone in a position of entrenched power, in government or industry, thinks they benefit from a stupid populace.