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“Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

toyota-global.com

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Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#101

Post by neffy »

greenspot wrote: post #97

I have just have one 'why': Why is Japan's GDP growth looking like this: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp Not that I don't like posts about management techniques but from Toyota (their best years are also some time ago) from Japan... I don't know.

It's a function of their money supply growth - which is now extremely low. Back in the 70's and 80's during the Japanese Bubble, it was relatively much higher.

Prices are a rather fuzzy function of the money supply, total production, and the supply of credit (for things customarily bought with debt). GDP is calculated by adding up prices of goods and services sold. Even though it is typically corrected for inflation growth, this doesn't adequately compensate for monetary growth, because production growth acts to reduce prices, and the two mask each other to some extent.

tldr: GDP is a terrible way to measure a countries output/growth.

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#102

Post by Spooky23 »

erac1e wrote: post #57
stevewillows wrote: post #47

I survived several years in a Six Sigma organization. The Five Whys was one of my favorite 'tools' despite the 'Black Belts' dragging the process out much longer than required. I've never seen a methodology burn through more easel pads.

Why are the five whys one of your favorite tools?

Unlike most management methodology nonsense, it works and makes sense.

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#103

Post by Piskvorrr »

code4life wrote: post #84
dTal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you told them ahead of time what you were doing, so they would happily cooperate knowing there would only be 5? Otherwise, by the fifth most people will think "man, this never ends..."

I'd probably ask "Why 5 times?" and then it would be game on.

"Diminishing returns."

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#104

Post by collyw »

JakeAl wrote: post #65
wccrawford wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually ask, "What problem are you trying to solve?", to anyone who brings me a solution instead of a problem, but it comes down to the same thing. I guess I don't even really know which question would be more efficient at getting the real answer.

The problem they think they need to solve is usually not the problem that needs to be solved. Hence the 5X (or more) to reveal the actual problem to solve. I think this really old article addresses it better. It's self-explanatory. Managing Complex Design Projects (1995) http://www.dubberly.com/articles/managing-complex-design-pro...

I just read through that. Asking questions and planning up front? Documentation before code? Thats so waterfall. (And it works quite well for some projects). Certainly having a problem that isn't clearly defined is a good way build something that doesn't solve the problem well.

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#105

Post by jerf »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #98
jerf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as "Five" is really just a rule of thumb as pointed out by other people, "Why" is really just a rule of thumb too. "What can we do to prevent the underlying problem?" just isn't as catchy, but it's closer to what you should be really asking. "People suck at statistics" is not an answer to that question. "Train people" is an answer, but only an answer. You've also got "something to make us more robust to bad stat…

Of course it's not an answer - just asking "why" gets you turtles all the way down, and "stop after five steps" may halt you with a stack that's too shallow; as you say, it's a rule of thumb. And now we're finally getting somewhere :) Cynicism can be a tool, a catalyst - "these are all the things that are unfixable, because Eeeeverything Sucks" is a good set for asking "are they all, really? Are there those that are…

To some extent I write to remind myself... I too tend towards the excessive cynicism rather than the insufficient. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of Knuth" may be a true statement, but it does tend to lead to fewer actionable ideas.

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#106

Post by adaml_623 »

greenspot wrote: post #97

I have just have one 'why': Why is Japan's GDP growth looking like this: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp Not that I don't like posts about management techniques but from Toyota (their best years are also some time ago) from Japan... I don't know.

That seems like a disingenuous question and the generally accepted answer is on the same website you linked: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/population

Fewer people = less growth

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#108

Post by hashkb »

jdimov10 wrote: post #94
hammock wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried forcing it 5x and found that the fifth Why is exactly the point where they get annoyed and stop talking to you. So there may be a magic insight at the fifth Why but you'll never hear it :)

The magic insight is always this: "Because I want to feel good." When someone doesn't want to put this in words, they get annoyed and stop talking to you.

You're so right... but you can substitute "powerful", " secure", etc for "good"; and also sometimes "because of secret reasons".

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#109

Post by harperlee »

satysin wrote: post #86
KhalilK wrote: post #7

Reminds me of Feynman's answer[0] when asked about magnets. 0. http://youtu.be/MO0r930Sn_8

I love Feynman. He was an incredible teacher but this video has always annoyed me a little. The interviewer asked a pretty clear question (explain why magnets repel or attract depending on how you align them) but Feynman goes on a bit of a rant about how the guy won't understand if he explains things as he (Feynman) understands it and that he (Feynman) doesn't know how to explain it to him (interview) in ways he woul…

Well for me it sounded more like he wanted to stress the fundamentality of the magnetic force, and the weirdness of it by not showing up in other familiar areas to wich he could relate to in an analogy - but I agree that he didn't do a very good job with that answer.

Re: “Ask 'why' five times about every matter”

#110

Post by Piskvorrr »

Joeri wrote: post #45
krutulis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also why do some people enjoy things that other people don't approve of?

And why don't those people approve of those things?

Unlikely that there's a single cause. One possibility is that people's value systems differ: do you like smoking? Do you like eating bacon? Do you like sunbathing? For each, there are people that disapprove, or would like you not to do this, or would even ban you from doing so (I could pick more controversial examples, but these are sufficient). Conflict clearly exists - but a way of resolution is not clear at all.
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