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Why Suburbia Sucks

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Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#281

Post by TulliusCicero »

djrogers wrote: post #108
TulliusCicero wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing all the people posting comments here who completely missed the point of the article. The author is NOT saying that suburbs are bad. The author is saying that American suburbs are bad. There is a difference, and that difference is the entire point of the article. Seriously, did you even read it?

Some of us LIKE American suburbs. The author is stating as an objective fact something which is entirely subjective in nature - a sadly common mistake among the overly cynical.

He's sharing his opinion. Do you really not ever say something like "X sucks" when it's just an opinion? I'm sure the author is well aware that it's not an objective fact.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#282

Post by TulliusCicero »

bklimt wrote: post #165
TulliusCicero wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing all the people posting comments here who completely missed the point of the article. The author is NOT saying that suburbs are bad. The author is saying that American suburbs are bad. There is a difference, and that difference is the entire point of the article. Seriously, did you even read it?

Why are you assuming that none of us defending suburbs are American? There's a reason so many people like to live in them.

I'm not assuming that. If anything, I assumed that most people defending them are American, and that Americans are wrongly interpreting "American suburbs suck" as "suburbs suck" because American suburbs are the only ones they know.

Some people like them, sure. I suspect that much of it is just cultural momentum at this point, though, where people are unaware of the possibility of a different format, or don't have the option available, and that given a choice to live in a Euro-style or American-style suburb that were otherwise in a similar situation, many Americans would choose the European-style one. Might even split 50/50.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#283

Post by TulliusCicero »

Maarten88 wrote: post #228
TulliusCicero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

I live in a suburb in the Netherlands and recently visited a school friend who now lives in a nice US suburb. We both have families with kids about the same age. We compared our living conditions. His beautiful wooden house stands on ten times the area as mine, with a very nice garden and ample parking space. It looks very nice. But my concrete/brick house is bigger inside, and much better constructed. Parking space…

Yeah, I'd LOVE to live in a Dutch-style suburb that was great for biking and walking. Alas, my employer has no dev offices in the Netherlands. :(

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#284

Post by ptaipale »

kuschku wrote: post #142
ptaipale wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the culture of helicoptering kids everywhere (and hovering nearby, trying to control and risk-manage everything) is spreading to Europe more and more.

Sadly. This is one of the negative effects of having mostly-foreign entertainment media, and I’d hope that the effect could be countered soon.

Entertainment is one thing, but I think far from the only factor in spreading this.

I tend to think that US is just somewhat ahead in most developments, and trends then come to Europe. In addition to near-hysteric control of what children do, we'll have gated communities in fear of crime, we'll have politically correct "safe spaces" in universities, and whatnot current US phenomena.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#285

Post by humbleMouse »

StevePerkins wrote: post #164
humbleMouse wrote: post #70

I am surprised to see all of the pro-suburbia comments here. I enjoyed this article and found it lines up with many of my criticisms of suburbia. The suburbs to me are a soul sucking place that gives me the heebie-jeebies. With that said, my opinion reflects my experience living in Minneapolis. When I visit other cities like Seattle or San Francisco, I am turned off by the ridiculous density and the inability to go t…

Downvote away... but everything about this thread is disappointing. There is much about U.S. zoning and housing that I believe is misguided. However, I'll say that the pro-suburbia comments in this thread are actually fairly well-written. Most of the anti-suburbia comments boil down to, " blah blah hellholes blah blah heebie-jeebies blah blah everybody's racist blah blah ". That is more of a Reddit thread than the us…

blah blah blah everyones racist is actually a true statement about the Minneapolis suburbs.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#286

Post by CM30 »

wmoxam wrote: post #229
antisthenes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entirety of Europe and many countries with colder climates, where suburbia would be unsustainable due to heating costs manage to raise children in safe environments just fine. Unless you're citing studies that explicitly show suburbia results in better outcomes for children than being raised in urban environments ceteris paribus, it seems like the only argument you're producing here is your own lack of perspectiv…

> many countries with colder climates, where suburbia would be unsustainable due to heating costs Which countries are these?

I'd be interested to know this as well. The UK has plenty of suburbs, and it's both got a fairly unpredictable climate and much smaller amount of usable land.

Does Russia not have them or something?

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#287

Post by bryanlarsen »

mattmcknight wrote: post #268
bryanlarsen wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"weekly shopping". There's your difference. In those places, you do 5-10 minutes of shopping 7 days a week, instead of 60 minutes of shopping once a week. Those corner grocery stores are tiny, you can be in and out quick.

I really doubt any daily shopping can be done in 5 minutes. Most NYC grocery stores are very busy. Going to the store every day seems ridiculously inefficient, and corner stores rarely have everything, forcing multiple stops.

You can grab a meat, a veg, and a loaf of bread and pay for it with cash in under two minutes, let alone five.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#288

Post by notlisted »

Maarten88 wrote: post #228
TulliusCicero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools. You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible. Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,…

I live in a suburb in the Netherlands and recently visited a school friend who now lives in a nice US suburb. We both have families with kids about the same age. We compared our living conditions. His beautiful wooden house stands on ten times the area as mine, with a very nice garden and ample parking space. It looks very nice. But my concrete/brick house is bigger inside, and much better constructed. Parking space…

It all depends on where you live Maarten. I'm from Holland. Moved to a 'burb' three years ago after nearly 20 years in NYC. We picked a town where some of the things you mention are still a reality (spontaneous play, kids walk to school in groups, biking is difficult because... hills). Meanwhile, I know that the situation you sketch isn't the reality anymore in large parts of Holland either (many more cars, fewer new developments, not enough kids, many old people).

The article brings up many good points, but the suburb outlined in the article describes a very specific kind. Having lived in a metropolitan US area for 19 years, I relish the lack of noise, the extra space (1 acre) and suburban life in general.

PS It's a little disingenuous to mention the bus/snow situation. Snow days here (5 max) are rare and typically well-warranted. You really cannot compare a 5cm "snowstorm" in The Netherlands with the 1+ feet (40cm) that fell overnight last winter.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#289

Post by notlisted »

coned88 wrote: post #146

To me as somebody who was raised in NYC and still lives there. American suburbia is just lovely. I find nyc dead boring and claustrophobic. Yes there nice restaurants in the city but how many times do you want to eat out? How many shows or do you go to? How many of this and that. That's the conclusion for me. Sure there are restaurants I'd like to visit. I can commute to go eat once. I don't need to live there and on…

Hear hear! 19 years in NYC. Wife 'forced' me to move to the burbs, but having tasted what life can be like you'd need to drag me back kicking and screaming to ever live there again. I laugh at those we left behind, who sincerely inquire "but don't you miss NYC?". Nope. Not one bit. Meet up in the park (because no back yard)? Join you for dinner at restaurant X (because no dining room)? Ha!

Quality of life has improved tremendously. Family life: more activities together, fewer dinners outside because we had to escape the small confines of our 900 sqft 2Bd apartment. Social life: we actually have enough room to have friends over… and they come. BBQs in the back yard. Potluck dinners with the neighbors and their 3 kids. Friends who stick around, not friends who leave because they can't keep up with the rent increase/job loss. Kids all go to the same school, no need for private schools, no competition for "magnet schools". No tiger parents.

Whenever we feel the need, less and less, we get a hotel room in NYC, go out to dinner in those "hot little joints" (mostly overrated, cronuts anyone?). Pure heaven, a 45min drive from the 'hustle and bustle'. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go mow my lawn and stare at the piliated woodpecker.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#290

Post by octobyte »

humbleMouse wrote: post #189
maxsilver wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Houses can be had for as low as 100k. Can they? I'm looking at Redfin right now, and they claim the average home price in Uptown, Minneapolis, MN right now is $600k. There's a few cheap 1 bedrooms apartments, but anything else is way in the realm of "completely unaffordable to all but the extremely wealthy" I see lots of cheap housing in Minneapolis. But it's all suburban in nature. (Either actually suburban, or 't…

The area around the new co-op over by 38th st and 5th ave - yes houses can be had for 100k.

That's hardly Uptown by any stretch of the word and the crime rate in the area is much higher than you're letting on (certainly compared to your average suburb.) As someone very familiar with real estate market in the TC metro, any home in Minneapolis that's below 150k is either in a high crime area, extremely lacking compared to other houses nearby (probably has no garage, no basement, backs up to train or highway), structurally deficient, or all of the above.
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