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Why Suburbia Sucks

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Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#171

Post by [deleted] »

jayess wrote: post #55
increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

There are many people, usually in so-called "urban planing" positions in cities, that believe that suburbs are something that shouldn't exist. They detest the option of suburbs.

[deleted]

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#172

Post by TillE »

lsc wrote: post #149
mahyarm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quiet safe urban areas actually exists in large amounts of Germany, while the only real urban areas that exist in the USA are in SF and NYC. SF & NYC have a sizable homeless population, poop on the streets and similar with large amounts of traffic. Suburban city centers attract the homeless and have a large amount of traffic because everyone has to drive in. German urban areas tend to barely have any road traffic for…

>German urban areas tend to barely have any road traffic for the density since almost nobody owns a car, a quiet train that passes by once in a while and most things closing at 8pm latest. Everything closes at 8pm? Jesus, I thought that silicon valley was bad, just 'cause it is hard to get a decent meal after 10pm.

Supermarkets and shops are the real exception: most close at 8, some at 10. Restaurants, convenience stores, bars, nightclubs, etc all work basically like they do in the US.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#173

Post by abalashov »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #148

The author of this story, who obviously has no kids, is confused as to why a family of 4 might not want to live in an apartment over a bar in downtown. That's my worst nightmare of life. I'll drive, thanks.

I have a newborn and two young stepkids, and the five of us live in an apartment downtown, but not over a bar. :-)

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#174

Post by andrewfromx »

In case anyone wants to study the 12 points over and over again I wrote them down:

1. Single-use zoning

2. Hierarchical traffic distribution

3. Set-backs from the street & parking ratios

4. Proximity does not mean pedestrian accessibility

5. Economic segregation by building type.

6. No street enclosure and definition

7. Useless, ugly and wasted space

8. Parking-first aesthetics, garage façades, no alleys, no interior yards

9. No street life or visible human activity

10. No public transport

11. Improper interface between city and highway

12. Lack of regional planning vision

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#175

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

rayiner wrote: post #49
increment_i wrote: post #18

Suburbia exists because people want a quiet, relatively safe place for their kids to grow up. I didn't realize this until I had children myself. I remember reaching my teenage years and cursing the dull, boring, culturally bankrupt suburbian neighborhood I grew up in. I left the minute it became feasible. Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, park…

I doubt the suburbs are actually safer. I once did the math. If you add up shooting deaths and driving deaths, the rich suburb where I grew up is about as risky as one of the north side Chicago neighborhoods. And of course upper middle class white teens are going to be at lower than average risk of getting shot in the city, but at higher than average risk of wrapping themselves around a tree in the suburbs. As for sa…

It could be SUV syndrome.

SUVs feel safer, and they're sold as a safe choice - even though in practice they're dangerous cars.

In the same way, suburbia has always been sold as a safe option, even though politically, culturally, socially, and ecologically, the effects are devastating.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#176

Post by rayiner »

lr4444lr wrote: post #107
55acdda48ab5 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools This all used to be easily achievable in urban neighborhoods. The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why people freak out about public transit to a lot of neighborhoods. The requirement of multiple car ownership in an area is a deliberately con…

> The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why I bought in a socially conservative neighborhood: people implicitly police one another into basic civic decency, and I'd much rather suffer an occasional scolding from a few overzealous busybodies than bear the burden of intergenerational poverty and crime. Sure, I may…

> few overzealous busybodies than bear the burden of intergenerational poverty and crime.

New York city in recent years has had about 350 homicides and 250 traffic deaths (600 total). The state of Virginia, which has the same population (8m people), has 700 traffic deaths and 300-350 homicides. In other words, you're almost twice as likely to die in Virginia (a mostly suburban and rural state), than in the densest city in the country.

When was the last time you heard about a middle class white kid getting shot in the inner city? How often do you hear about teenagers dying in car accidents in your "safe" suburb?

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#177

Post by xxpor »

mattmcknight wrote: post #158
hasenj wrote: post #51

One thing I can't fathom about cities in North America is this sharp division between residential areas and shopping areas. I'm by no means a world expert, but the places I've been to (Middle East where I grew up, Japan which I visited a couple of times) don't have this sharp distinction. Sure, there are residential areas and there are shopping areas, but every residential area will have many small shops here and the…

Walking to the grocery store sounds ridiculous to me. Even when I could see one from my house I never walked there to do the weekly shopping. I typically buy more than I can carry. I guess it depends on whether you have a big family or not...

See, the issue is that you're doing weekly shopping in the first place.

I typically shop on Sunday, which carries me over til Wednesday, then shop on W/Th. I know quite a few people that shop almost every day.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#178

Post by makecheck »

The article lists a lot of major issues with suburbs, and I saw them all when I used to live in one.

Something that wasn’t really mentioned is how utterly boring some of the everyday life choices are. And yet, because none of the choices necessarily sucks, people remain “just happy enough” and never really yearn for anything better. I’m sure this setup is great for corporations but it is sad for human beings. Just observe: I mean, every single shopping center seems to have nearly exactly the same chain restaurants and a Starbucks…EVERY ONE! And if by some miracle you do find something different, it is usually a “choice” between Home Depot and Lowe’s or a “choice” between McDonald’s and Wendy’s or something.

Plenty of variety still exists outside of suburbs. The problem is that for people in suburbs, it would mean driving 45 minutes to even reach the alternatives, much less enjoy them regularly. And if you are averaging long drives all the time to/from work or to do anything else, the last thing you feel like you have time for is another long drive to experiment.

I felt it sucking my soul. Long drives expose you to more traffic which leads to anger, etc. Driving wastes a lot of money (cars are expensive even when fuel is not high-priced). And I found myself slowly accumulating garbage to fill a large space. Ultimately I felt that it was a lot more sane to live smaller, in an “expensive” place closer to civilization. While it did cost a lot more per square foot, I saved money after not too long and I definitely felt better. And I have more variety now.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#179

Post by bryanlarsen »

mattmcknight wrote: post #158
hasenj wrote: post #51

One thing I can't fathom about cities in North America is this sharp division between residential areas and shopping areas. I'm by no means a world expert, but the places I've been to (Middle East where I grew up, Japan which I visited a couple of times) don't have this sharp distinction. Sure, there are residential areas and there are shopping areas, but every residential area will have many small shops here and the…

Walking to the grocery store sounds ridiculous to me. Even when I could see one from my house I never walked there to do the weekly shopping. I typically buy more than I can carry. I guess it depends on whether you have a big family or not...

"weekly shopping".

There's your difference. In those places, you do 5-10 minutes of shopping 7 days a week, instead of 60 minutes of shopping once a week. Those corner grocery stores are tiny, you can be in and out quick.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#180

Post by Retric »

Semiapies wrote: post #155
bardworx wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vastly reduced Lead levels to reduce violence Can you expand on that statement? Do you imply bullets (as in higher prices and gun control) when you refer to Lead or literally the reduction of the metal Lead in paint, etc. And how is it linked to violence?

There's a hypothesis out there, pushed by a few researchers citing each other (including one Bell Curve fan), that environmental lead from leaded gas and such caused reduced IQ and greater criminality among urban residents. It's not actually a remotely mainstream view among any sort of scientist. However, it has a lot of currency among left-of-center people uncomfortable with the legacy of urban renewal (aka "bulldoz…

The scale is debatable, but there is a lot more evidence for this than you might think. It's also a lot more than just gas, paint, water pipes, sodder, even fillings also made significant contributions.

IMO, scale is not that important as the preverbial straw that broke the camels back is important, but so are all the others that get to that point. A leaning disability on it's own might not lead to violence, but it does reduce people's options even further.

PS: Mercury was also known to have neuron toxic effects. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_hatter_disease. However, lead is more of an issue at developmental stages. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

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