Why Suburbia Sucks • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#161

Post by bbarn » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:08 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #105

jacobolus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, Valparaiso Indiana was a regional transportation hub in the mid 19th century. I suspect it has considerably different city plan than more recent “suburbs”. Try comparing an online map satellite view of Valparaiso to some new housing development from >1990, and you’ll observe dramatic differences.

Eh, I doubt it. Around the core -- maybe -- but Valpo (and Merrillville) are bedroom communities for Gary and Chicago. That's WHY there's a commuter train into Chicago. I expect it's brimming with white-dominated, cookie-cutter neighborhoods, exactly as described by the article.

I used to have to work in both these cities when I did field service. Valpo is a little unique, though I suspect part of that is proximity to the beautiful Dunes lakeshore area. Merrilville on the other hand, is a standard, typical suburb. The intersection of I65 and Hwy 30 is suburban shopping central, mixed with large industry buildings.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#162

Post by terda12 » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:08 PM UTC

coned88 wrote: post #159

terda12 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize children walk home from school all over the world right? This isn't something new.

not in America anymore.

There's a local elementary school nearby, I see kids walk home from school everyday. I'm not sure where you are pulling that data from. A young teenager can walk/bike home by him/herself relatively safely in most of America. Or are we just living in a world where a bit of hardship on a kid is "child abuse" now?

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#163

Post by michaelbuddy » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:08 PM UTC

devdas wrote: post #43

grecy wrote: post #36

> the predominant suburban design of the US of the worst features of life here, viewed from the perspective of a European immigrant like me, Really? As an immigrant, I always though the worst features of life in the US are the 10x higher murder rate, millions of desperate people with no health care, etc. and the crushing debt placed onto young people looking to educate themselves. I would change those things long bef…

Quite a bit of the crime rate comes from suburban development, and the highway system.

Yes of course. Suburbs and highways cause rape. Nice try.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#164

Post by StevePerkins » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:09 PM UTC

humbleMouse wrote: post #70

I am surprised to see all of the pro-suburbia comments here. I enjoyed this article and found it lines up with many of my criticisms of suburbia. The suburbs to me are a soul sucking place that gives me the heebie-jeebies. With that said, my opinion reflects my experience living in Minneapolis. When I visit other cities like Seattle or San Francisco, I am turned off by the ridiculous density and the inability to go t…

Downvote away... but everything about this thread is disappointing.

There is much about U.S. zoning and housing that I believe is misguided. However, I'll say that the pro-suburbia comments in this thread are actually fairly well-written. Most of the anti-suburbia comments boil down to, "blah blah hellholes blah blah heebie-jeebies blah blah everybody's racist blah blah".

That is more of a Reddit thread than the usual HN. Much of this simply sounds like: (A) single renters under 30, or (B) European immigrants, incredulous that they can't double their own take-home pay while experiencing zero broader social differences.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#165

Post by bklimt » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #67

colmvp wrote: post #30

I've split my life living downtown (SF, NYC, London, Melbourne, TO) and in the suburbs. Outside my house the only thing I hear is the wind tossing about with the trees. Can't hear my neighbors or traffic or people on the street. Contrast that to when I lived in areas where the bars or homeless/mentally unstable individuals would keep me up all night. And I love all the space. Yes, it's a double edge sword. But I have…

It's amazing all the people posting comments here who completely missed the point of the article. The author is NOT saying that suburbs are bad. The author is saying that American suburbs are bad. There is a difference, and that difference is the entire point of the article. Seriously, did you even read it?

Why are you assuming that none of us defending suburbs are American? There's a reason so many people like to live in them.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#166

Post by abalashov » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:11 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #41

CameronBanga wrote: post #20

I'm trying to find words to describe my distain for this article, but I can't think of anything that isn't seen as a direct attack on the author, which isn't my goal. Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented? There are plenty of places in America where you can get by without a car. I live in "suburbia". A small city of 30,000 in Indiana called Valparaiso. We have a vibrant downto…

> Basically America is bad because we had space for cars when they were invented? I think you did an admirable job of expressing my source of dissatisfaction with the article. That, and the author interjecting his personal preferences as architectural dogma - his passage about "No Street Enclosure" was very much of "I grew up in the tight spaces of old European cities, therefore preferring the tight spaces of old Eur…

very much of "I grew up in the tight spaces of old European cities, therefore preferring the tight spaces of old European cities is a psychological default universal in humankind".

Except I grew up mostly in suburban northern Indiana, suburban Houston, and suburban northeast Georgia. :-)

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#167

Post by lr4444lr » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:11 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #144

lr4444lr wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The elephant in the room people don't want to acknowledge is that suburbia has mostly been a way to flee from and exclude social decay. This is why I bought in a socially conservative neighborhood: people implicitly police one another into basic civic decency, and I'd much rather suffer an occasional scolding from a few overzealous busybodies than bear the burden of intergenerational poverty and crime. Sure, I may…

> I'm happy to give up grime, drug trafficking, and violence for an internet tongue lashing. This statement assumes that if you did not make the choice that you have you would be assured to have these things happening right outside your door.

Sure. I imagine that many families moved to Sandy Hook, CT for safety and security. There's no guarantee in life. There's also relative measure: some of the old timers where I live feel the neighborhood has "gone downhill". Some people are frankly just happier living in a bustling and unstable place where they simply accept they can't let their kids go outside unsupervised until they're 18. I believe we'll generally be happier with where we live over a multi decade span by identifying our personal priorities and chasing the expected value. It's the author's judgmental and absolutist position that I take issue with, that things like tight uniform zoning, "parking first" space, and hierarchical traffic distribution must "suck". They in fact suck in his opinion.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#168

Post by mahyarm » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:11 PM UTC

lsc wrote: post #149

mahyarm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quiet safe urban areas actually exists in large amounts of Germany, while the only real urban areas that exist in the USA are in SF and NYC. SF & NYC have a sizable homeless population, poop on the streets and similar with large amounts of traffic. Suburban city centers attract the homeless and have a large amount of traffic because everyone has to drive in. German urban areas tend to barely have any road traffic for…

>German urban areas tend to barely have any road traffic for the density since almost nobody owns a car, a quiet train that passes by once in a while and most things closing at 8pm latest. Everything closes at 8pm? Jesus, I thought that silicon valley was bad, just 'cause it is hard to get a decent meal after 10pm.

Not everything, there are still a bunch of restaurants and bars and some 24/hr liquor / 7-11 type shops. The noise level although has never been a problem when those are open.

Experience: Living in a place that was right above a bar, a 7-11 and in front of a train.

Also the sidewalks are huge, they are as big as a lane of traffic. As a result cafes and such can easily have comfortable outdoor seating. And because everything is first floor businesses, there are a ton of cafes in a 10 minute radius. You could probably visit a new one every day. Compared to my current place in the usa where I have to walk a few blocks to get to the 'business road', where there is no apartments above the businesses. Not all places are as business dense, but there isn't as much stopping it than the USA lets say.

But yes, things close earlier in europe in general.

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#169

Post by vasilipupkin » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

mruniverse wrote: post #88

It seems like people like Suburbia. A lot of people buy houses and live in Suburbia. Something seems to be right about it. Maybe we should look at is popularity before saying it sucks. Try to figure out why it's popular. What is going on there? That would be an interesting read.

Well, America has a difficult racial tension problem. Decades of policy choices mean that inner city public schools can be problematic, so many people are forced to move to the suburbs. They don't necessarily like or dislike suburbs any more than city but they have to move to where decent public schools are

Re: Why Suburbia Sucks

#170

Post by abalashov » Sun, May 08, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #36

> the predominant suburban design of the US of the worst features of life here, viewed from the perspective of a European immigrant like me, Really? As an immigrant, I always though the worst features of life in the US are the 10x higher murder rate, millions of desperate people with no health care, etc. and the crushing debt placed onto young people looking to educate themselves. I would change those things long bef…

And I've written about those, too. :-) But while it doesn't have the same rhetorical gravitas, everyday quality of life is surprisingly important to one's experience of a place.