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ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

economist.com

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Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#71

Post by traverseda »

jerf wrote: post #4

In addition to the obvious 0 line, it's worth taking the article's observation that S&P has returned 7.8% and mentally drawing a line there too. Also, for anyone in the position of deciding which to do, I'd add the observation that it is way easier to go to college and get a formal education in science, math, or engineering, and pursue an ongoing adhoc self-directed education in the arts and humanities in your remain…

As a self taught-programmer, I'd be interested in why HN thinks

>it's on the short list of exceptions, not the rule.

As an example, I've fiddled around with circuit design. I'm not good at it, but I can make some basic stuff.

It feels a lot like fiddling around with linux early in my career, and I'm not seeing any obvious point where it suddenly becomes more difficult to learn the skill.

It's just a bit harder to get into, and a bit harder to get on-the-job training/mentorship.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#72

Post by geebee »

This is interesting, and it came up recently in a WSJ study that showed that the eliteness of your college doesn't matter - if you major in engineering or CS.

I started to wonder if maybe there's another distinction that is hidden in the data. I think we can all agree that there is a difference between earning 150k a year as a senior software engineer and as a director of the American Musical Heritage foundation. Some people could reasonably see those as very different outcomes, one job far more desirable than the other.

Here's the thing - do those distinctions actually exist within computer science as well? There's a big difference within tech. Think about being a data scientist who writes a lot of code, but has a tremendous amount of autonomy and freedom, who gets to initiate projects, direct his or her own work, make presentations, speak at conferences, and so forth. Now imagine being a senior crud bug fixer who checks JIRA every morning and works (under constant pressure to provide updates about whether we'll still meet the "deadline") to figure out why some payroll calculations are sometimes included twice in the pdf report but not the excel report. Say both jobs pay 150k.

There's a big difference between that first job and the second one. Is it possible that elite schools make it more likely that you'll get that first job? I'm not saying this is the case, just that a hidden distinction similar to the humanities/engineering divide may exist here...

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#73

Post by hiou »

jerf wrote: post #4

In addition to the obvious 0 line, it's worth taking the article's observation that S&P has returned 7.8% and mentally drawing a line there too. Also, for anyone in the position of deciding which to do, I'd add the observation that it is way easier to go to college and get a formal education in science, math, or engineering, and pursue an ongoing adhoc self-directed education in the arts and humanities in your remain…

Many artists peak in their early thirties after about a decade of constant practice and work. There are many hormonal and social changes that occur after that point which make creative paths more difficult. Certainly not impossible but I certainly wouldn't consider doing those later as simple as it sounds on paper based upon financial means.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#74

Post by emodendroket »

Tideflat wrote: post #66
emodendroket wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're studying Japanese because you think it will make you money it is a bad idea

Less well known languages like Japanese tend to have higher returns on investment than common ones like Spanish. IIRC Spanish has a return on investment of about 3%.

In my experience the Japanese translation market was very crowded and didn't pay well so my first plan went out the window.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#75

Post by [deleted] »

CPLX wrote: post #37
rayiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that point of view to be a conceit. It's an emulation of the noble classes of yore, who learned things they didn't need to know as a way of signaling that they could afford to do so because they didn't need to work. Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are.

For an opposing viewpoint, today might actually be an excellent day to ponder the effect of a lack of understanding of basic math, science, and history has on the general electorate.

[deleted]

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#76

Post by rayiner »

humanrebar wrote: post #68
rayiner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you're talking about Trump. We've had universal basic education in those subjects for decades, so that cannot be the explanation. I suspect the problem is not a lack of education, but a lack of indoctrinating the right values. Consider climate change. I believe climate change is happening and needs to be addressed. But I don't really understand the mechanics. Neither do the people who think it doesn't exist.…

> They dislike him because they have different values than he holds Right. I believe in the Golden Rule and Trump thinks it's not a big deal. https://youtu.be/PX9reO3QnUA?t=17

The list is a mile long. Is free trade bad? Clinton supporters don't oppose Trump for that because they took macroeconomics and he didn't. They do it because Trump's position comes from a place of unilateralism and "America first" which are values they find odious.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#77

Post by humanrebar »

cmdrfred wrote: post #5
tyingq wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may pay better, but they are calculating the overall return, meaning the cost of that top-10 degree is a factor as well.

I agree this might indicate that top tier institutions simply extracted all of the value difference that separated them from the others.

Well, maybe they extracted all the cash difference. Some people use degrees as status symbols. What's the old joke? How do you know if somebody went to Harvard?

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#78

Post by emodendroket »

Retric wrote: post #69
emodendroket wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be next to impossible without some college degree. Might as well study Japanese.

Yes, but the idea was you are better off studying something else and then picking up Japanese on the side. Instead of studding Japanese and learning that other thing on the side.

Well, besides that, twenty years is a lot longer than it took me to achieve.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#79

Post by cableshaft »

tehabe wrote: post #12

On one hand it is nice to see that the school doesn't matter as much as people think but on the other hand it is sad that people see their studies only through the eyes of ROI. As if education has no value of its own. I'm probably just naive and an idealist.

Naivete and idealism is how we have a whole generation saddled with student loans they can barely afford to pay, forcing them to stay in jobs they'd rather not have, delay buying a home or getting married for decades.

I know some people on the other end of six figure student loans (I'm not, thankfully, but I'm still going to be paying mine off for four or five years still). These people are not doing what they'd like to do, what they studied to do (because they can't find a job in it) and are praying for a windfall. In some cases, hoping their family members die and leave an inheritance just so they can pay off a chunk of the loans.

This is going to have profound effects on the economy and society for a long time.

So yes, idealists should know what they're volunteering themselves for and how one simple decisions can make life really difficult for them for the next 20-30 years.

This isn't the era where you could pay for a year of college with a part-time summer job anymore, like the baby boomers had.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#80

Post by shanemhansen »

emodendroket wrote: post #8

I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.

Colleges are enthusiastic partners in positioning the concept that college is a path to a good career. They only seem to bring out complaints about using colleges as "vocational school" when people expect results.

It's not like university admissions offices are filled with people saying "Are you sure you want to come here? Don't do it for any hope of having a job in the future, this is a $n year exercise in pure reason and research."

What I find truly disheartening is that if you judge colleges by their actions, they think of themselves as tax-advantaged businesses trying to extract the most dollars possible from financially naive kids, donors, and sports fans.

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